Great Women In Fraud

Episode 9 Karisse Hendrick E-Commerce Queen of Fraud

November 24, 2020 Kelly Paxton, CFE Season 1 Episode 9
Great Women In Fraud
Episode 9 Karisse Hendrick E-Commerce Queen of Fraud
Chapters
Great Women In Fraud
Episode 9 Karisse Hendrick E-Commerce Queen of Fraud
Nov 24, 2020 Season 1 Episode 9
Kelly Paxton, CFE

Karisse Hendrick is the go to person for all things e-commerce fraud related.  She runs the Fraudology podcast https://fraudologypodcast.libsyn.com/website and is the founder of Chargelytics http://www.chargelyticsconsulting.com/. 
Karisse and I met online because my sister's store was having some chargeback issues.  I reached out to Karisse and she graciously responded.  We ended knowing several people from my time at Nike.  Our paths just seem to keep crossing.  
Rejection leads to redirection is how Karisse looks at the world and it has served her well.  
Her experience at FraudCon in Israel in 2019 happened due to serendipity and all sorts of amazing things continue to result from her trip.  

Show Notes Transcript

Karisse Hendrick is the go to person for all things e-commerce fraud related.  She runs the Fraudology podcast https://fraudologypodcast.libsyn.com/website and is the founder of Chargelytics http://www.chargelyticsconsulting.com/. 
Karisse and I met online because my sister's store was having some chargeback issues.  I reached out to Karisse and she graciously responded.  We ended knowing several people from my time at Nike.  Our paths just seem to keep crossing.  
Rejection leads to redirection is how Karisse looks at the world and it has served her well.  
Her experience at FraudCon in Israel in 2019 happened due to serendipity and all sorts of amazing things continue to result from her trip.  

Links:
Fraudology podcast https://fraudologypodcast.libsyn.com/website
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/karissehendrick/
Chargelytics Consulting: http://www.chargelyticsconsulting.com/

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Kelly Paxton: I am so lucky again great women in fraud, an amazing, amazing guests and we have Karisse Hendrick, and you know what is so funny about Karisse. I think I reached out to you, like, because my sister has a store and she had like a fraud issue.



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Kelly Paxton: And that's really good so kindly, and then we realized we had some connections with fraud at Nike and everything like that. And then we have continued this relationship. So welcome to the podcast Karisse  and why don't you tell us about



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Kelly Paxton: how you got into the world of fraud or anti fraud is, I call it



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Karisse Hendrick: Well, thanks. Kelly, for having me. I actually, I totally forgot that. That was how we start, I think that was years ago but

That's awesome. Um, yeah. So I've been in e commerce fraud prevention for a little over 15 years I actually started out on the payment processor side.


Karisse Hendrick: Kind of by accident, like most everyone on the e commerce side of fraud and really the biggest difference about e commerce fraud is that it's all preventative it's all before before it happens so

It's. There's a lot of investing and looking at the details and trying to basically extrapolate people's intentions.

On a purchase on the internet, of whether they are stealing it or not, whether they're using their stolen credit card or a stolen credit card or not. And for every $1 of fraud that hits a merchant actually cost them $3 so that's why it's so important to prevent it and So I got a note by accident, but fell in love and have stayed on purpose. And I went on to the merchant side for a few years. I started a fraud department for a startup.

In 2008 to 2010 then I went on to Expedia. And I created a process there that's still



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Karisse Hendrick: In play for something called friendly fraud which is ridiculous, but it's more first party fraud. It's a terrible name for something. But, and then I

Really fell in love with working with online companies at a higher level. So I started

I had been speaking at conferences for a while and really just loved just like you, you know, the light bulbs that go off and

Helping people you learn things that maybe they didn't know before. And so I was asked to consider a position as a program manager for an international trade association and online risk and



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Karisse Hendrick: So I did that for a few years and then I went off on my own. And I've been running Chargelytics  consulting for the last six years. It's pretty much this week is its anniversary, so that's exciting and also working a lot with basically when online companies don't know who to ask. They asked me, I'm very

Lucky for that I've worked with hundreds of the biggest brands online through my work with the trade association as well as

 Through writing for publication and working on content for conferences and all kinds of things, but I really, I just love supporting online merchants and fraud fighters within that



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Kelly Paxton: Well, I'm so we're going into a holiday season with I just was talking about it earlier, we're not going to probably have Black Friday, but we are going to have an insane  Fraud cyber, why don't you talk about that a little bit.



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Karisse Hendrick: So what are the towards the beginning of the pandemic. I was just fielding, a lot of the same questions from a lot of companies and so

I started a couple of merchant collaboration calls with people in my network and one of them is with online retailers. So pretty much, you know, most of the department stores that you can think of.

Most of the stores that are in malls or, you know, shopping centers are all part of this group. There's about 40 of them there on the invite list bi weekly but

 You know, really varies based on schedules, who's able to come by. We actually just had that call today and our most recent one today and

 They're all preparing for a giant snowstorm. And one of the department store said that their company is basically starting holiday sales. The very first week of November, whereas they usually wouldn't do it till the end of November.

And all analysis for e commerce are are just sky high. As far as the volume compared to in person because of coven 19 and the impacts of that so



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Karisse Hendrick: There's a million reasons what and maybe not a million, but maybe 1000 reasons why this holiday season is going to be really tough for fraud fighters online and not just code related but



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Karisse Hendrick: There's just a lot of factors, I would say, Actually, most of them are code related between



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Karisse Hendrick: Shipping partners being overloaded and so packages taking longer warehouses are having to social distance so packages are taking longer

And competing with Amazon with the two day pack. It's just, you know, there's a lot there. And that can cause a lot of issues that can look like fraud isn't fraud or vice versa. So yeah, we're


It's gonna be a lot, but I'm you know i'm i'm here to cheer them on from the sidelines. I'm grateful. I'm not in retail at work, the holiday season and retail. You just don't even have a family. You'll see in January.



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Kelly Paxton: Oh yeah, when I was at Nike. A couple of people that I worked with on that side of the house. I'm like, you know, they're doing shift work. They're just non stop.



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Karisse Hendrick: Shift from



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Kelly Paxton: Basically now until after Christmas and and then you've got coated this year and you have supply chain. I had to buy a dishwasher recently and my selection was not incredibly a lot. Wait for eight months. I mean it was just because of the supply chain.



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Karisse Hendrick: Yeah, there's a lot of supply chain issues for retailers as well. Absolutely. It's causing just down and I think everyone's a little nervous for sure.43

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Karisse Hendrick: And here.



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Karisse Hendrick: I'll go ahead and



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Kelly Paxton: Know, as the fraud hashtag queen.


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Kelly Paxton: The fraud hashtag for you is sharing is caring


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Kelly Paxton: You do these phone calls and you have you built this

Community and it's so important to have this community because, you know, are these people going to go home and talk to their families about friendly fraud.



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Karisse Hendrick: Actually asked my husband. Yes. Are they going to want to hear it. No.



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Kelly Paxton: But to have that you built this amazing community where people can feel comfortable and reach out



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Karisse Hendrick: Well, that's the thing about online fraud is that it's



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Karisse Hendrick: Especially for competitors in every other area of their business their competitors. Right. But when it comes to fraud.



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Karisse Hendrick: They're not competing against each other. They're competing against the fraudsters and the bad actors and if one of the companies.



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Karisse Hendrick: You know, if you're looking at to two big box stores or to department stores or to gaining platforms, whatever it is. I've, I've had the privilege of introducing a lot of them to each other over the years.


Karisse Hendrick: And they're getting hit in a similar way. And if one of them kind of figures out how to identify it or how to stop it. It's all going across the street.


And or it's going downstream. I've seen sophisticated fraud attacks. Start at, you know, high, low dollar digital goods like online gaming platforms or

 Those kind of: It, it's critical for companies to be working together. And that's something I'm really passionate about and I do all of that for free. It's not part of my business model at all. It's just, that's what fills me up and



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Karisse Hendrick: I am just yeah I just feel like I'm the hub of the wheel. They're all the spokes. And I kind of soak in what I can and but it sometimes I feel like it's selfish to me. But you know, it's something that I just, I absolutely love to


You know, facilitate the sharing and sometimes it is commiseration and that's okay too.



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Kelly Paxton: I spoke at this was years ago Iovation that got bought out

Yeah, Transunion.

I was fascinated, because there was a woman from Australia who did a presentation.

 And the same thing. She's like, once we identify these people. She goes, literally, we put all the bad guys into one sandbox.


Kelly Paxton: And they can just fight amongst each other in that sandbox. And she goes, because you know they are if they hit a big box store. They're going to hit the other big box store and it's like We're not helping each other. If we don't share the information. So it was a lightbulb moment for me and I love the fact that she's like, You know what, once we put them all in a bad guys sandbox. And then they all try and take out each other.



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Karisse Hendrick: That's kind of specific to their business with



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Karisse Hendrick: The devices and all that. But yeah, I like it.



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Kelly Paxton: Yeah, yeah. And you know I have a law enforcement background and we used to keep our sources, very, very close to us. We wouldn't share and I've broken that like if someone wants to know something, and I know the answer, I'm going to give it to them because

Really it is. It's a hard thing when you come and you've made cases based on sources, forget it. I give it and you clearly go all that sort of information out.



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Karisse Hendrick: I do. I really don't believe in holding information hostage. I mean, certainly as a consultant. I've had to learn where the paywall is

But I, I would say, you know, there's a lot of things that I just feel like

It's important to just share. There's no formal path or education path or training path for online fraud and so most people are really on the job training.

And there's a lot of people still that are just joining the industry now and they're just wide eyed and lost puppies and I just I want to scoop them all up and help them all as much as I can.

But what I can do is help introduce them to other merchants who have been there for a while, you know, to kind of help them to because otherwise I'd be spending my whole time doing that and



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Karisse Hendrick: That would be amazing. But I kind of need to keep the lights on. Keep the internet going, but can keep working.



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Kelly Paxton: Well, so in this leads to. You have a new podcast where you are, the host by yourself, why don't you tell us a little bit about Fraudology



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Karisse Hendrick: Yeah, so he started phonology. Just recently I think you and I started right around the same time I



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Karisse Hendrick: Had had previously had a podcast and I was a co host and it was great and I really enjoyed it and I think my favorite. I know my favorite part of it was getting information out and sharing information with others and also just the feedback loop of people, you know, saying, hey, I learned so much from that episode or

I was able to talk to my boss about this in a different way than I didn't know and

All these things. And so I just really appreciated that and enjoyed it and when the decision was made to end the last podcast I was kind of not sure if I wanted to do a podcast by myself or not. I wasn't sure if anyone would want to listen but I



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Karisse Hendrick: The purpose of Fraudology is really to talk about the science and study of fraud.



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Karisse Hendrick: And and primarily it's about e commerce fraud, because that's what I know, but we have brought on guests from the banking side.



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Karisse Hendrick: As well as a former criminal that did a lot of different types of crimes, not just cybercrime and as well as the director of strategy for fraud strategy for Macy's and I've I'm going to have several others soon too so



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Karisse Hendrick: It's really just about sharing stories and information with each other. And really, it also Helps have a platform. So sometimes if I'm getting questions about one thing often I can just say, Okay, I'm gonna do a podcast episode about that. It's not meant as self promotion. It's just meant more as time management.



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Kelly Paxton: Yeah, absolutely. So I've got like a list of questions. And one of the things, one of the questions is, and I think it helps me. I know this answer. Um, do you think you have a hidden talent and what is your hidden talent.



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Karisse Hendrick: I am trying to think what My hidden talent would be, um, I mean I'm intuitive. I don't know if that's a talent. I think that



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Kelly Paxton: That's where I was gonna go out and being intuitive.



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Karisse Hendrick: Yeah, I think that that is really become a superpower in fraud fighting and in detecting fraud. I actually was able to at the beginning of this year or I don't know time is a construct this year but

Towards the beginning of coven I was able to cut it. I was getting all these issues from retailers about



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Karisse Hendrick: You know, we're having these issues. We can't figure it out. And then I you know randomly heard from a fraudster something about this thing called refunding and I was like what the heck is that it's like this whole new kind of fraud.

That no one's ever seen before and I was able to put together those pieces because you may not be analyzing transactions anymore, but it's still, you know, still got it in that way.

 But I think also like people reading and just also I've really good. I think I've really good sense of who would be good to meet each other, who would be good to work for you know I love helping people get jobs when I know them well I don't you know

I don't give referrals to people that I don't know. Well, but, um, you know, I love to be able to do that. So I think if that's considered a talent. That's what I would say. I don't like sing or dance or anything. I mean it seeing, but not well.



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Kelly Paxton: Okay, I'm not. We have not had singing yet.



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Karisse Hendrick: And you won't this episode, either.



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Kelly Paxton: What's the best compliment you have ever received related to work with.



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Karisse Hendrick: Learn what a teenager, that doesn't have

 You know, I think the best ones are when people appreciate. They took time to help them or mentor.



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Karisse Hendrick: You were younger women or other women. I really enjoy similar to you, encouraging other women to go for things and try because I think sometimes we're our own worst enemy myself.



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Karisse Hendrick: Very much included. But in a way, I've gone through a journey of self discovery and trying to push myself and and work towards you know

: Hopefully one day eradicating the imposter syndrome. And so that's something I really appreciate helping people and I the compliments around that are really

 They mean a lot to me, for sure.



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Kelly Paxton: Yeah. Yeah, no, I absolutely. So do you have a personal motto.



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Karisse Hendrick: Hmm, I have a few, actually, um, okay. Of course, I'm like, trying to think of i mean i i have them like that. I say all the time. I'm like, wait, what, but one of them I stole from Marie Forleo, which is everything is figure outable.




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Kelly Paxton: I love it.



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Karisse Hendrick: I love it too. And I just feel like it. Sometimes I get really frustrated because I'm in the details. A lot. I'm like, Oh my gosh, how can I, how is this going to work, and it's like everything's figure out a ball and so that's like an easy one. I just



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Karisse Hendrick: I also think it's just important to be kind and be honest. And you know what goes around comes out. You get what you give those kind of things.


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Karisse Hendrick: I know I have a couple others, but I can't think of them off the top of my head but it'd be around that genre.



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Kelly Paxton: Okay.



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Karisse Hendrick: We still actually I just thought of one that you'll, you'll get a kick out of my grandfather actually a

he heard this one from a poker buddy that actually owned a very large chain of grocery stores in the civic northwest, but Who is from isn't as important as don't get into a pissing match with a skunk.



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Karisse Hendrick: That one I I remember as well. Sometimes when there's, you know, haters online or whatever it is, right, if you're getting, it's just like, Okay, don't get in a pissing match with a skunk. So yeah that's that's a



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Kelly Paxton: That is definitely a good one.



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Kelly Paxton: so if you can work in a different field. Have you ever thought about like working in a different field because you've kind of read. Read made yourself in a couple different ways is



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Kelly Paxton: There anything else that you're like,



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Kelly Paxton: incredibly curious about work wise.



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Karisse Hendrick: I because of my strong sense of justice and just



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Karisse Hendrick: My passion for details and curiosity. I think I'll always be in a form of fraud fighting. It's just kind of who always be and I originally wanted to be in social work and Because I do have a lot of compassion for people. And so sometimes I joke that I'm kind of like the social worker for capitalism.



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Karisse Hendrick: Because they help large companies save millions of dollars and recover them. But, you know, at the end of the day, I'm doing it to help them.


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Karisse Hendrick: Do it with a, you know, not really in it for the paycheck. So that's like a byproduct. So, um, but I think I don't think I'd go into social work, I think it'd be too hard for my bleeding heart and I think I've been curious about

Not career coaching, but something around that line like helping others in that way as well as you know, possibly writing a book at some point.



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Kelly Paxton: That's one of my other questions. Oh.



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Kelly Paxton: If you were going to write a book, what would it be about like a fraud or your journey and fraud.



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Karisse Hendrick: So I actually had one heck of a childhood. So that would be its own book, but I don't think I could do. I mean it's, it was very, very unique and not necessarily in a good way, but

 I don't think I would do that. I think that would be really hard. Unless I, you know, had a lot of like, you know, personal therapists sitting next to me or something, but I think I do think it would be around fraud. I think that's kind of something I've been working on.




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Karisse Hendrick: You know, I've been approached by a technical you know company to do like a textbook on fraud analysis and I

Just didn't feel like it was the right time for me. And so I actually my favorite thing about that was



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Karisse Hendrick: I got to introduce the publisher to two women in Israel who are just fantastic at analytics and those girls or women are writing like the best book and I can't wait to endorse it and write the forward and



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Karisse Hendrick: You know, they, they would have not known that technical publisher. It's a very large name.



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Karisse Hendrick: And so that's, you know, that's one thing but I don't think I want to go on technical route. I think I'm still kind of thinking about it. I definitely have a lot of stories but



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Karisse Hendrick: Part of the problem is a lot of people want me to name names and name company names and and that's just not something I'll do. And yes, I do know where all the bodies are buried for most of e commerce.

And half the time. I don't have any games with them, but their trust is like



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Karisse Hendrick: The most important thing to me ever and I never want to derail that so

 That might be like a deathbed book by then people will be like, What's e commerce. We do everything by, you know, I don't know, our wrist or something. Who knows.



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Kelly Paxton: Okay, so this is this leads to



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Kelly Paxton: You meeting these two women in Israel. And I know a little bit of the backstory, you apply for a big conference you got turned down.



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Kelly Paxton: In the meantime, this conference in Israel, wasn't it fraud con


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Kelly Paxton: Yeah yeah you to go to Israel to present much bigger deal. And this is where I'm going to say serendipity and put yourself out there.

 Like what are the chances that that would have happened. What if you had gotten that first like I'm going to say freebie gig and you couldn't have done this.



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Karisse Hendrick: It was crazy story. So actually, it's even a little bit crazier than that because while I was asked to speak at the event.

I was also told that I had been selected for an award that I didn't even know existed actually three I know we're on podcast but it's right there. I finally


My business mentor was like, why do you not have your award on your website, your LinkedIn, it's

Still, maybe not on those things. Don't tell her, but it is on my wall behind me when I present because I've, I've done several large virtual events. Recently, so



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Karisse Hendrick: Um, yeah. So they nominated and selected me to be the first annual recipient of the legend of e commerce fraud award.


And out of Tel Aviv, Israel at fraud con. I didn't even know fraud con happened in Israel. I'd never been to Israel.



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Karisse Hendrick: I, you know, where are the chances. But yeah, so I had applied to this big conference that you know a lot of people go to and you know it's Association. I thought, well, you know, be good exposure for from an e commerce perspective.



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Karisse Hendrick: And I had spoken for two of their local chapters that year and the local chapter person that really encouraged me to apply and. But yeah, it wasn't a paid gig. I mean, these days, I mostly do paid gigs, similar to you, but


Karisse Hendrick: At the time, I was like, you know, they, there's a lot of people going to that one. So, do it for free.

: And and it was, you know, at a town in the US that I've been to before, but happy to go. And then, you know, I was. Yeah, I was declined and then About six weeks before fraud con i got this email and I was like,

 And I was a little nervous about going to Israel because I didn't know. Like, I remember I'm American. We see news that doesn't look safe. It was I fell in love with that place. I would move there in a heartbeat, the food, the people

The atmosphere, how much they really. I mean, they are really on the cutting edge of innovation in cyber crime and security. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that most of the people you know that are in security were in military intelligence kind of their version of the NSA



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Karisse Hendrick: But just tons of great innovation and I've since been working with a couple of startups out of Israel that are just light years ahead of anything else that I know about. From a broad perspective so

 That's trip has paid off dividends in so many ways. And I haven't even maximized. You know, the and the funny thing to me too is that I'm technically the two year champion because there wasn't a frog Con this year, and no one else got towards



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Karisse Hendrick: I tried to find silver lining anywhere I can



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Kelly Paxton:  silver lining



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Karisse Hendrick: Yes, there's not many of them, but that would be a good hashtag as well if it isn't already but um yeah I was, you know, I was planning on being on the beaches of the Mediterranean this June for fraud con 2020 and

That was one of the several trips that were in my, you know, travel graveyard. This year, so to speak.



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Kelly Paxton: Yeah, well, it just goes to show is one, you know, cheesy told if one door closes. Another one opens



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Karisse Hendrick: So true.



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Karisse Hendrick: So that was redirection right



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Karisse Hendrick: That's, yeah. That's something I've really had to learn this year as well. I was pretty bummed because I had never, I mean, part of it was. And I think this is the post. You're thinking of it like I was really bummed because I



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Karisse Hendrick: Hadn't applied to speak at a conference in a really long time. I mean that's play sounds really conceited, but like I just I hadn't I'd always been asked to, you know, speak at places and



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Karisse Hendrick: So I applied and then to not get it out. I didn't want to be like, don't you know who I am, but I was kind of



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Karisse Hendrick: Like, I mean it's a different circle of fraud. I'm not going to totally, you know, assume that, but um yeah but it kind of stung a little bit, but then



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Karisse Hendrick: When I didn't even realize it was the same day, actually the same days at all until you posted that you were there and I was like oh my gosh this is certain different like I just I hadn't even thought about that conference. So I didn't even realize the dates, it was, it was crazy.



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Kelly Paxton: Things happen for a reason, this and we talked about this isn't before. Okay, great. Women in fraud apply for positions to speak publicly about your expertise.



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Kelly Paxton: And yes, the reason I are on a mission to get more women to present, we just we you guys are qualified like absolutely qualified so and if you get turned down somewhere. Don't stop.



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Kelly Paxton: Yes Karisse is the perfect example I've been turned down by one conference four or five times.


My way into it. Finally, and it works.





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Karisse Hendrick: Say,



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Karisse Hendrick: Is that under pink collar.



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Karisse Hendrick: Part of it.



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Karisse Hendrick: So no, I couldn't agree more. It's something I'm super passionate about encouraging women to speak. If I wouldn't have been



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Karisse Hendrick: Brave slash naive to speak 10 years ago for the first time at a big conference my career never would have gone the way a dead ever like, I guess it wouldn't have. I wouldn't have had



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Karisse Hendrick: People from Expedia asking me, it wouldn't have people from Etsy asking me to consult like it just, you know, a build from there. But like


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Karisse Hendrick: It really, it's important to try and it's important you know I'd much rather look back and be like, I didn't get it, but I tried



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Karisse Hendrick: Then I didn't try. And sometimes that's what it comes down to. For me, I'm still nervous about some things, but I'm like, which 1am I going to regret more


 Doing it or like trying and failing or not doing it at all. And almost always, it's not doing it at all. So,




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Karisse Hendrick: We were talking about this earlier, but I think it's important to share that like



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Karisse Hendrick: I until recently felt like, Well, I'm not qualified for something and I think for some reason I thought in the back of my head that

 Someone would come along with a magic wand and say you're qualified



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Karisse Hendrick: You're qualified to be a keynote speaker in charge for it, you're qualified to, you know, write a book you're qualified to have your own podcast that doesn't happen. We have to qualify ourselves.



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Karisse Hendrick: And it's really easy to second guess ourselves and not think we're enough. But what a man with your experience, do the same thing. Probably not. And that's not a dig on men that's honestly I envious of.



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Karisse Hendrick: You know, the confidence and the lack of self guessing that that a lot of men have I, I think my career would be even further. If I, if that were the case.



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Kelly Paxton: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So is there anything that you want to tell the listeners or like something I haven't asked you, and you're like, oh my God. Why hasn't she asked



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Karisse Hendrick: No, I mean, I think, I think the biggest thing was just, you know, going for things right like


Going for the next step. What's the next step because there's too many brilliant women that are sitting in the same position they were in a few years ago or not trying for the next step or and if it's not within your, you know, if you're



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Karisse Hendrick: If you're good in your current position. Maybe it's mentor someone else. Maybe it's, you know, work. Learn something new. Maybe it just, you know, keep leveling up. I think that's, I really

It's just something I really feel passionate about, because I kind of had to go outside of our industry to get some of that advice.

And. And I think it's because the women. There were very few women in the industry. Before I joined me. I joined pretty early on the e commerce side but

 The very first conference. I went to in 2009 was in Vegas. And there were 250 attendees and there were less than 20 women.



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Karisse Hendrick: And now there's about 30 to 40% women, which is awesome and I love that so much, but I think I still see


You know, a lot of them deferring to the mail on their team or not feeling confident or and I just, I guess I would just urge everyone to

 Try. I mean, try for that next step, find out what you're needed for them. What's not needed for the next step and

I because if I, you know, if I wouldn't have tried, I wouldn't have met as many awesome people like you, I wouldn't have, you know, no one told me I was qualified to work with. I mean, I guess kind of by hiring me for the trade association, but



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Karisse Hendrick: You know, to work with these ginormous companies that are, you know, household names, but I've, you know, I've been able to help them and then they've helped me. So it's, you know, um, I guess I probably sound preachy at this point, but I'm passionate about it.

It's not gonna say it's lonely at the top, because I don't feel like I'm at the top yet, but I do feel like I



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Karisse Hendrick: I always am wanting to help other women up not out but help a woman up and I think, you know, I know you are too and I think



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Karisse Hendrick: I want women to wants, you know, want to be as well. And it's not just all you guys. Trust me, we're fully aware of the challenges in the workplace.



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Karisse Hendrick: Think between Kelly and I, we've have our doozies of stories, but to keep going and not let that get to you is one of the greatest gifts because karma and life will figure out the other side of it, but just take care of you and



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Karisse Hendrick: You know, and keep going forward.


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Kelly Paxton: I have some friends and compliance great women in compliance.



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Kelly Paxton: Yeah, it just wrote the book and it's send the elevator back down and I just love because you're sending the elevator back down all the time and like you know it's



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Karisse Hendrick: No I don't deserve to be on the elevator by myself. Like, I don't want to be it's boring. I am. I'm a social person.


But I just feel like, you know, I have been so lucky to have such an amazing network and my network and my knowledge really has no value. If I'm not sharing it with others. That's just



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Karisse Hendrick: That's always been my kind of my mantra. I guess that is one of my models and and it's something I live by. And I think that, you know, if I were to hog it all to myself I would miss out. And so what other people



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Kelly Paxton: Yeah, oh my gosh, this is so much and I loved it. I absolutely loved it.



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Karisse Hendrick: No thank you me to


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Kelly Paxton: Have a wonderful day. Thank you so much Karisse and we will talk to you when your book comes out.



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Karisse Hendrick: Well, that might be in a few years, Kelly, but I, I'm happy to come back.