Great Women In Fraud

Episode 14 Matt Christensen, CISSP CFE ITPM

December 29, 2020 Kelly Paxton, CFE
Great Women In Fraud
Episode 14 Matt Christensen, CISSP CFE ITPM
Great Women In Fraud
Episode 14 Matt Christensen, CISSP CFE ITPM
Dec 29, 2020
Kelly Paxton, CFE

Today’s episode with Matt Christensen is extra special for many reasons.  Matt is a big supporter for all things #pinkcollar crime and #greatwomeninfraud.  He is the first Great Man in Fraud for our series.  

Matt is a leader in all things anti-fraud and cybersecurity and mentorship.  I consider myself extremely lucky to consider him a colleague.  Please take a listen and definitely reach out to Matt.  He is the real deal.  If you weren’t able to attend CyberCraft Summit there is still time to get the videos.  Matt and Lindsey Ivie did an amazing job connecting all people anti-fraud.  Hear about manels. Spoiler alert CyberCraft Summit was not a manel. 

Let’s finish off the year with a real superstar.  Here’s to 2021.


Show Notes Transcript

Today’s episode with Matt Christensen is extra special for many reasons.  Matt is a big supporter for all things #pinkcollar crime and #greatwomeninfraud.  He is the first Great Man in Fraud for our series.  

Matt is a leader in all things anti-fraud and cybersecurity and mentorship.  I consider myself extremely lucky to consider him a colleague.  Please take a listen and definitely reach out to Matt.  He is the real deal.  If you weren’t able to attend CyberCraft Summit there is still time to get the videos.  Matt and Lindsey Ivie did an amazing job connecting all people anti-fraud.  Hear about manels. Spoiler alert CyberCraft Summit was not a manel. 

Let’s finish off the year with a real superstar.  Here’s to 2021.


Show Notes

Get your CPE here - 

2020 Data Breach Investigations Report: Official | Verizon Enterprise Solutions

Darknet Diaries – True stories from the dark side of the Internet.

00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:15.030

Kelly Paxton: We are here today with Matt Christiansen and Matt has the honor of being the first Great Man in Fraud for Great Woman in Fraud. How does that make you feel, Matt?

00:00:16.109 --> 00:00:18.119

Matt Christensen: I'm extremely honored and I'm humbled. 

00:00:19.500 --> 00:00:42.660

Kelly Paxton: Okay. And you know what? That is Matt. Because we're going to talk a lot about him and his community and how much he contributes and how I am honored to be part of it. So Matt, why don't you give us a little bit of your backstory and how you got into fraud? Which is you know, for you not committing it but investigating and, more importantly, preventing.

00:00:44.760 --> 00:02:34.560

Matt Christensen: When I was 10 years old I watched a movie filmed in 1992,  directed and filmed by Robert Redford; Sneakers is the movie. I know you know it well. Many of your podcast listeners will know well.Remember watching that show even at 10 years old, thinking, I want to do what these guys do. I want to get paid to find weaknesses to find vulnerabilities within companies, so that I can help prevent them. I've always said that detection is ideal, but prevention is a must.

And that's one of those things that if you can just prevent it from happening in the first place, then you don't have to spend time, money, and resources. Detecting, figuring out what went wrong. Rebuilding, rebranding. So at 10, I had that, that insight to just say.

You know whether I end up in the FBI or whether it works PRIVATES. Like, I just, I want to be able to help people figure out how they can avoid being

You know, a victim of fraud. It is what it came down to and I've always been good at things like breaking locks and picking locks and finding those weaknesses. So anyway, long story short,

I was able to be fortunate enough to get an internship working for a very large company, one of the largest companies in the world.

Where they didn't have anyone that really looked at fraud. And my boss extended the hand of opportunity. And said, look

You're passionate about this, Why don't you go build us a program?. And we did and it became a money generator. It wasn't a cost center, we actually generated

Millions and millions of dollars by being proactive about the way we address fraud and then from there, kind of, the rest is history. And it did fulfill the childhood dream, of truly helping prevent bad things from happening before they happen.

00:02:35.880 --> 00:02:50.220

Kelly Paxton: That's amazing. And once you got to get into, specifically cyber. It took you, I want to say, I've read posts, where it's like 50 applications and like you kept going like you didn't give up.

00:02:50.940 --> 00:04:07.770

Matt Christensen: I did. I tried to. And that's a very conservative number. That's the number I've always thrown out there and some people today in today's market might say well 50 is not a big deal. When you're trying to apply into a very niche market, to begin with, you know, cybersecurity 15, 20 years ago it isn't what it is today.

There weren't jobs that were, you know, you can be a cybersecurity analyst or an engineer or it wasn't really built into a company's ecosystem. And so it was extremely difficult. In fact, the one call back, I had I remembered it was a wrong number.

Like, how on earth is it so hard? It got to the point I was exhausted mentally I considered just giving that dream up and you know, going back to doing work that I was doing before that. But you know, like anything. It was worth the effort. The more you put into it, the more you get out of it and

I was afforded many, many hands of people that just saw potential that I didn't see myself and you know things kind of snowballed from there. So in the end, it wasn't necessarily my personal grit. It was really the determination of other people, extending their hand.

00:04:08.880 --> 00:04:50.790

Kelly Paxton: Well, and I think you have paid that back to so many people. So let's talk about this year. Your big, Oh my god, huge CyberCraft Summit.

Why don't you talk a little bit about the genesis of it and how it went. And I was lucky enough to be chosen and you chose people like you didn't have people submit. You chose people. So I was incredibly honored to be in that.

There was an all-star cast truly and I'm going to give you a huge kudos right now because you and I have talked about this before, women need to step up and speak.

And have a video and you had diversity.

00:04:52.050 --> 00:07:28.530

Matt Christensen: Yeah, we did Kelly. And fortunately, every person that we hand-selected said yes. And that's how great our community is, there's truly is value,

In trusting relationships. Many of these people. I've known for years, through LinkedIn, but never have I even met in person and they agreed to do this. So the Genesis really was,

I have two passions in my professional life: cyber-security and anti-fraud. And every time I go to a cyber-security conference, I wanted to have training and discussion and

Just candor around anti-fraud and it was never there. And then I go to a fraud conference and I wanted to have and wanted to see where they were bringing cyber-security in.

The two don't just intersect. They're interrelated. I mean, You can't have one without the other.

One set of fraud tools can find hackers, one set of cyber-security tools can find and prevent fraudsters. And so I just look for it, to be honest,

Expecting these big conferences out there to start pulling the two together. And I said, let's just build one, so we did. A good friend of mine, who I met over LinkedIn. She's here, Lindsay Ivie. She's here in my State of Utah, she's a mastermind when it comes to event planning. And I said, I'm passionate about these two things, you're passionate about events. Let's do this. So together we did, we built an event. And we built some criteria. And you mentioned part of it. We wanted to have a diverse panel.

Not diversity for diversity stake. We wanted to have diversity because diversity, especially in these two communities lack

And I'm just calling a spade a spade, we need more women. We need more diversity at ethical ethnicity diversity, in our communities. And so we said, well,

Instead of having one or two female speakers, which kind of is that percentage you see in a lot of conferences. Let's make it above 50%

So anyway, we made that a big effort to say we're not going to just cater to what everyone else does out there. We want to build something different and we did, we were told that we get maybe 250 people to sign up for it.

And we exceeded that.

00:07:29.670 --> 00:08:40.380

Kelly Paxton: Well, yeah. And that's the other thing is like people sign up and then don't show up and I know people showed up for this because I thought. So Yeah, I just, it was there was nothing close to being a mantle as I call them.

And I truly appreciate that. But you know, it's not always the conference.

The conference's fault when it does end up being a mantle because some women don't step up to it.

And that's why, Great Woman in Fraud started. It's like I push people to like, put in for it. I'll help you, I'll coach you, like do you need help with your deck or something like that because and you and I both are good friends with Korean Hendricks like

We tend to minimize and, you know, there's the statistic that men will apply for a job, you know, if it says Spanish speaker, they're like, well, I can say taco. And, you know, women and have to be fluent in Spanish. I mean, that's a poor example. But, 

It's my responsibility and our community's responsibility to have women understand that they need to ask to be heard. So

00:08:40.680 --> 00:11:10.290

Matt Christensen: It's you know you and I've spoken before it's clear that one of your callings  in life is to be a super-connector, I mean that's one of your superpowers,  you know how to connect people and you don't just connect and then drop off. Your someone who always circles back

And that's what building a community is all about. It's, not just a one-time introduction, it's a continuously engaged conversation and it's never for self-interest, right? or self-building. It's always. How can I help that person?

To be honest, the best fraud investigators, the best fraud fighters, many of the best cybersecurity professionals I've had the opportunity of working with, have been women and I don't think that's a coincidence.

When I worked, doing an internal audit, I had the distinct pleasure of having one of my managers and a really direct supervisor was just brilliant in this space.

And her direction was huge. The VP, again another woman that fully supported me in where I wanted to take this program.

And I could tell you story after story of how. How important it is to bring women into the conversation and not just bring them into the conversation, but have them lead the conversation. And this doesn't have to be a man versus woman thing. I don't think that's even. What I know, that's not what Great Women in Fraud is.

It's all about empowering. It's all about enabling, it's about helping other people realize their potential when they don't see it.

And know it for themselves. And so, yeah, I just, I have truly been so fortunate to have so many great women in my professional career.

Helped me grow, help expand, and help uplift in areas that I would never have been able to. Again, not because

They're just the ones that you think about some of the inherent skill sets and talents and abilities that do come right with that. And so yeah, I don't know.  To me, it's just an honor.

Anytime we can help further the community, diversify it and further grow it. That's when we really start beating the bad guys, which is really what this is all about. Right?. It's not a paycheck.

00:11:12.630 --> 00:11:32.730

Kelly Paxton: Especially Sunday, which leads us to. I know we've talked about this before.So how is COVID impacting you?. Besides the fact, which I have to put in here. You don't have to commute near as much as you used to. And that's like a huge boon for you because I know how busy you are. So how is COVID impacting your actual work, work?

00:11:34.920 --> 00:12:56.970

Matt Christensen: You know, I look at impact more as an opportunity. People highlight how quickly, how terrible 2020 has been and I look at it as this has been a year unlike any other. To grow, to stretch, to do things differently, to challenge yourself.

So COVID, the way I would summarize it is, COVID  just opened up so many doors so many opportunities. You know, 

We did kick around, we were planning the CyberCraft conference well before COVID and there was always this debate, do we do this virtually.? Do we do it in person?.

But it came down to we can have far more impact if we do this virtually, we have a global audience. And so, yeah, that's just one example where

We've taken what could be a terrible situation, obviously that the healthcare side of it has been, you know, something we hope we never have to see again in our lives.

But as far as making us think differently, do things differently, what used to have to be in person can now be just as effective virtually

And I love that aspect of it. So for me, I'm ending 2020 on a high note that I'm not letting this, this time this moment in time, break me, but rather challenge, challenge, and see it as an opportunity.

00:12:57.750 --> 00:13:10.440

Kelly Paxton: Yeah, like, I mean, I don't think I would have started the podcast had COVID not happened and I certainly wouldn't have finished my book because last year I traveled a crazy amount

00:13:10.620 - 00:13:11.000 

Matt Christensen: Yeah

00:13:10.620 --> 00:13:46.350

Kelly Paxton: Yeah, and I'm reaching a much bigger audience, I'm reaching a lot more business owners now, instead of just my peers and I will always help my peers with training and teaching.

But I'm actually reaching out to business owners more so, because of COVID and zoom and being able to have a bigger audience. 

There are pluses and negatives. I, you know December has been rough so far because we see the kind of maybe light at the end of the tunnel and I think we're anxious for that to happen, but I will have changed my business substantially.

00:13:47.190 --> 00:15:09.060

Matt Christensen: Yeah you, you will because you're smart and you adapt. I think those who think that we're going to go back to the old norm, it's gonna be a rough awakening. right, I think just that alone, you know, you're ahead of the game, you're doing something that no one's done before. I've seen, you know great women in compliance. I've seen great women and other subject matters, but you're tackling it's a niche within a niche. There are only 90,000 fraud investigators in the world out of 7 Billion.

And now, you're trying to say, how can I even narrow that niche down. the best part about the podcast and you're speaking your presentations, the things that you do is you can, you can do it now in a way that has a global impact, whereas before you're limited to whoever happened to be in the audience.

That happens to them not multitasking or happened to not be distracted and that they can listen to. Now you're putting content out there in a way where people can go back and listen and share and hopefully, do things be nice to podcasters like submit reviews, give them good positive reviews. When you like it, it can further their reach. And that's just the power that you're bringing to the community.

00:15:09.930 --> 00:15:43.050

Kelly Paxton: Yeah, and you know, I wanted to do a podcast. Two years ago, and I like my VA stopped me and it was good because it would have been really broad and I would have burnt out, whereas this is like this is really my thing. And it really started with me being on Great Women in Compliance and I'm like if they can do it, I can do it for Great Women in Fraud. It was like the light bulb went off. So, but, yeah. So if, what is your superpower? You have a hidden superpower, tell the audience what is your hidden superpower.

00:15:43.680 --> 00:15:45.930

Matt Christensen: Wait. This is a video. This isn't a video, right?

00:15:49.530 --> 00:15:50.430

Kelly Paxton: Just audio.

00:15:51.480 --> 00:17:19.080

Matt Christensen: You know, Kelly. I don't know what my superpower is. I was born to just love people to see the best in them to realize that everyone is your superior in one way or another. There isn't anyone you can't learn from. Professionally my superpowers, I can really quickly identify how a bad person can steal from someone. It doesn't take me very long to find the undercovers driving on a road, I can spot them. I can mark them very quickly. When I walk into a business, It doesn't take me very long to say that would be the easiest way for an employee to walk out of here and no one would even know. So I think discovering and exposing vulnerabilities. If you're talking about a professional superpower. I think I've had that for a while, but on a personal level.

I think just connecting with people and You know, fortunately, I feel very blessed that I've been given a perspective that humans aren't perfect. They're going to make mistakes and you should just give people the benefit of the doubt before you're quick to judge them.

That might sound high and mighty but where it was an unscripted question. I feel like I'm giving you the most candid, that's my honest response.

00:17:19.590 --> 00:18:36.000

Kelly Paxton: Well, you know, and as I matured through this process of being an investigator and not that I was ever like power-hungry or anything like that, but I see empathy and dignity are getting so much more. And I've seen,

I'm going to say younger investigators where they're like, I mean in law enforcement, we say their badge and heavy And I'm doing a class for a colleague, where he has students interviewing me. And it's interesting to see their techniques.

So early in their career. And so, yeah, the empathy and dignity as you go on and like we are all humans first and then some people make bad decisions. And does that make them about the person?

You know, I've, I've seen bad people as criminals. I've seen bad people. As co-workers. We can't say just because you're

You know, a CEO, you can't be a bad person, because as we know that, you know, CEOs have a very high amount of psychopaths, so that, you know, but you can't just say, good, bad, good, bad, there's a lot of gray in this world and COVID is bringing out a lot of gray.

00:18:36.690 --> 00:20:08.490

Matt Christensen: No doubt. I'm glad you brought up empathy. I remember the first several interviews that I bawled with the person that I was interviewing. Right, I mean, at that point before the interview and you know this. So to your listeners. You've done hours and hours of research. Like you don't interview someone and tell you you're pretty confident you know what the outcome is. But during that information-gathering phase, you can just think how could someone do this?. Then when you get them in the interview room.

You learn about their story, their backstory. Right, It's a suffering child. They have a husband or a spouse that lost the job.

I mean, it could be so many things. And he used to you don't. I never justified it in my mind, but I could at least say Okay, this is how good people make bad decisions. And while it was wrong and they're gonna have to pay for that. I can understand that this isn't who they are as a person. And when I mentioned earlier on, 

Some of my biggest influences in helping me build those investigative skills, those interviewing skills were women. And I sat in the room with them and I watched how empathetic they were with the subject and I just, I really had some amazing leaders, just let me learn and soak up and model that behavior that I learned from these great women.

00:20:09.750 -->  00:21:09.690

Kelly Paxton: Well, andI recorded an episode yesterday with Jerry Williams of the FBI Retired Case Files and He had a really interesting discussion and hopefully, people will have heard it. If not, go back to it, but I had a boss who was, you know, X three-letter agency and it was an interrogation. It wasn't an interview and then she was about an FBI agent who she would say, I'm going to have a conversation and when, when I see people who are like, Well, I'm gonna go interrogate them. I mean, good luck with that. Because you know that they will shut down, they will absolutely shut down.  It's this. Is hard work. We don't want to go home at night and feel like we made someone's life worse and even though they did something bad. We don't have to make them feel worse about it. They know it's bad. We don't have to make them feel worse about it.

00:21:09.990 --> 00:22:06.960

Matt Christensen: Yeah, no doubt. I think one of the most rewarding things you can have to happen in an interview.

And I like how you put that a conversation is when they can admit it out loud verbally, for the first time.

Right. They've been doing it for months, sometimes years. no one knows about it, at least in the majority of the cases I've worked. It's not a colluded effort. It's a single individual. And the moment that they first can verbalize

I've stolen from the company you just see this weight lift off their shoulders and you don't really see light come into them, but at least you see that weight lift off their shoulders and

That doesn't come until you've been very successful at helping them feel trusted, right, you never get, you never get someone to admit in the first 10 minutes of a conversation

00:22:08.760 --> 00:22:19.140 00:22:31.290

Matt Christensen: For sometimes the first hour. I mean, it takes time. But yeah that's just, I like that perspective that it's not an interview, it's not.

It's a conversation. just here to just hear to hear your side of the story to hear your perspective, what's happened. So we can understand you know where to go from here.

00:22:31.770 --> 00:22:55.140

Kelly Paxton: Yeah, absolutely. You, you know, I am not a cyber person like that's that stuff is scary. I know enough to be dangerous. Like, you know, But how do you stay on top of all of it like educationally wise.? I mean, I know you put together an amazing cyber craft. But how do you know who are your sources, what trainings doo you tend to go to?

00:22:56.370 --> 00:25:05.520

Matt Christensen: Like you Kell, I'm a life learner. I will, the day I stopped learning is the day I die. And I just, I look for diversity and training. There's a lot of subject matter experts that are kind of the de facto, but I try and not just take their perspectives. So I dig on podcasts. I'm big on reading security blogs subscribing to cyber magazines, things like that.But the short answer is I get a lot of information from a lot of sources. I don't try and just rely on a single source, this is an area that you can't be complacent in you, you know, we were already fighting an uphill battle to hack into steal has become such an easy thing to do now. And even if you don't have the skill sets, for $200 you can get someone to do that for you.I mean you can truly buy an Amazon subscription to go hack a company to then have thousands of dollars. And that's a pretty good return. I give someone 200 they do the dirty work. And now I get, you know, X amount and so It's not an area that you can just trust your training that you've had. That you're going to stay ahead of them, in many cases, you have to run with the bad guys. I mean, that's just how it goes. There are places you need to beSo that you know what's going on out there. Now I'll put the caveat out there, people have heard the term dark web. They may know about that. That's not an area you just go to if you're curious. You will find yourself in. Put yourself in far more danger and trouble, then you will make it an educational opportunity. So I hope your listeners don't take that as an endorsement to go and just play around on the dark web. But anyway, the short answer is it's an area, You've got to be consistently learning

00:25:06.780 --> 00:26:07.110

Kelly Paxton: Oh yeah, you know, my husband's a professor and he would get sabbaticals and sabbaticals for professors, they go and they continue to learn. I mean, I can't imagine walking away from this work for six months and not feeling like I'm constantly having to play catch up because content. There's so much great content and the connections out there and everything like that. And, and, again, people want to help and

I come from a law enforcement background and for a long time, we kept our sources tight like that's what we did. I don't do that anymore. I haven't done it for years because you get more when you give more.

Yeah. I do believe that and that's why when you say I'm super-connector and I follow through. It's like

You know, I can't be everything I can't be a cyber person. But if I need a cyber person I know exactly who to go to. So you have to keep up with the trends like I can't go on a six-month vacation.

I just, I would never feel like I could catch up again. So, yeah.

00:26:07.230 --> 00:28:11.880

Matt Christensen: You know, for your listeners, if they're Great Women in Fraud podcast listeners that want to know some resources.

Verizon puts out what's called the Data Breach Incident Report. You can Google it. Verizon DBIR. It's an amazing resource, I think it's the comparison to the ACFE report to the nation.

And you know, that's probably two links, we could put in the show notes, but that's. It's an amazing resource too. You don't have to be a cyber nerd.

To actually understand what threats are out there, right?. what are common ways that companies are being broken into the data is being stolen.

Once it's stolen, where is it going, what's it being sold for how much is it being sold for, where is it being sold?

Those reports are phenomenal. A couple of podcasts. I just threw out there, Darknet Diaries. If you wanna really know what goes on in the dark web without going there. That's an amazing podcast.

If you're a super nerd and you want to talk binary, to that level. There's a podcast called Security Now, Steve Gibson puts out his episodes are long and

Unless you're technical, it may not be your jam. But if you're a cyber nerd or you want to become one. Every week he puts out a very technical one. And then McAfee puts out one that anyone can relate with. people ask me what I do for a living.

You can say, you can high level it and say why I prevent bad people from doing bad things and good people from doing bad things.

Or I can, I can defer them to other people's websites or podcast but there's one called HACKABLE?,  that's put out there by McAfee and anyone can listen to that and your mind will be blown how easy it is to hack a system, a garage, a coffee maker, a company. So anyway, those are just some if you want resources. There's a few we can put in the show notes.

00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:57.450

Kelly Paxton: Yeah, yeah. Um, you know, this is so funny when I was in customs, you know, in the 90s. I remember going to a presentation and there was a guy from Intel, the company Intel And he said, I can go down the street and I can open everyone's garage door, and I thought this was in the 90s. And I thought that was like amazing. And I don't know where he's gone on to but like that's stuck with me because now, like, you know, I could probably hack a garage door or I know you could show me how to hack your garage door easily, but we've moved forward so much but I mean, honestly, I don't want my garage door opened and how, how easy is it to do that?

How absolutely easy is it to do that with all the tools we have today?

00:28:59.100 --> 00:29:47.910

Matt Christensen: I would say it depends on the garage door which kind of comes down to anything. It depends on how updated our technology is. are we running the most current or are we

Surely in an antiquated state. And so, yeah, the short answer is anything can be broken into. It's just a matter of time and effort.

If you really want to get into it. Some garage doors.

To try and mimic the signal that it can send is extremely difficult, but if I really want to get into a garage door. All I do is just wait until you pull in

Push it close and walk in your house without watching it close and then I just put my hand and or a stick in front of the sensor and it goes right back up.


Kelly Paxton: Yeah

00:29:48.330 --> 00:29:52.350 00:29:54.570

Matt Christensen: That's how easy things are right, we think we're so safe and secure. But in the end, anything can be broken into.

00:29:55.620 --> 00:30:32.340

Kelly Paxton: Yeah, yeah, that's, I mean, yeah, different ways to you know not to be politically incorrect, but different ways to skin a cat.

Yeah, I mean that that's the easy way. But how often does it work for people like that, it does it.

You know you don't have to have it. You don't have to go on the dark web and get a super-secret little thing. like you know my house is 18 years old, the garage door is probably 18 years old I probably should maybe upgrade it or something like that. So yeah, but here we digress. So we're getting towards the end. And I have a couple of questions that I like to ask, like,

00:30:32.370 -->00:30:33.370

Matt Christensen: Okay!

00:30:32.370 --> 00:30:40.050

Kelly Paxton: Okay, if you could work in a different job field, what would it be? anything you run the lottery. And you could do anything, what would it be?

00:30:42.120 --> 00:31:35.700

Matt Christensen: My first response would actually be the police department and maybe that was an expected response but I look at what our men and women do, day after day, and give up. Everything to keep civility and that would be one that the second thing I would say is finding a way to help influence troubled youth. I think wouldBe an area. I mean, this sounds all soapbox you know some people might be like well go run a vacation home in the Bahamas. That's what I would go do I've just reached the point where unless I'm getting fulfillment and what I do, day to day, it only lasts so long. And then it's you who needs something else. So I think I've matured enough to say whatever I do. I want it to make a lasting impact.

00:31:36.390 --> 00:31:46.050

Kelly Paxton: Yeah, that's well you're making a lasting impact so already. So, This is kind of a silly question.

00:31:47.790 --> 00:31:48.210

Matt Christensen: Okay. Okay

00:31:48.420 --> 00:31:56.310

Kelly Paxton: What, but I like this silly question because it's like, what was the last thing you Googled before this interview? I like this question.

00:31:58.650 --> 00:32:12.600

Matt Christensen: The last thing I Googled before this interview was, oh man.

I'm gonna pull up my Google history so that I actually have a legitimate answer because I'm on Google.

00:32:11.580 --> 00:32:12.600

Kelly Paxton: All the time.

00:32:13.950 --> 00:32:19.230 

Matt Christensen: I remember it. Now, what does PM stand for? so a.m. and p.m.

00:32:19.950 --> 00:32:22.680

Kelly Paxton: Oh, post midday, isn't it, or is it not it?

00:32:24.570 --> 00:32:29.550

Matt Christensen: It just said acronym. In fact, I'ma pull it up right now because  it frustrated me

00:32:30.990 --> 00:32:33.000

Kelly Paxton: I thought, it stated for post midday, but I don't know

00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:52.230

Matt Christensen: I'm sure you're right its post meridien OhBut the result that pulled up. It just said an acronym that means afternoon and before midnight, and I was like, what?. See, now it shows post meridien that was the last thing that I Googled

00:32:52.980 --> 00:33:09.420

Kelly Paxton: Oh my god. And then another question. And I think I know the answer to this, but okay, because you have a podcast. Are you a podcast listener or just a podcast guest because I will admit, I have guests who don't listen to podcasts. I'm a huge listener, but

00:33:11.040 --> 00:33:50.970

Matt Christensen: Yeah, I do podcasts, as an audible library. I mean it's,  There's so much wealth of information out there that people are willing to divulge and give free I hear all the time. I just can't get into podcasts. It's like I get that some people, hearing is not their learning mechanism. They need to read. I know you're a heavy, heavy reader, but I think there's so much that you can learn through podcasts and Yeah, I am a podcast listener. I'm not just the guest. Yeah.

00:33:51.000 --> 00:34:23.910

Kelly Paxton: Yeah, like I say podcasts have changed my life. And now, especially right now because I now have one but  you can listen to like Bill Gates, you can. I mean there, there's no end of people; Hillary Clinton just started a podcast. Michelle Obama. I mean,And I've blown way past podcast fade, which is Episode seven or 10 so that it's not going to be hard for me to keep going like, you know, eventually, when I retire. My husband will say, Okay, you can stop with the podcasting now, but I don't think I ever. Well, I don't know.

00:34:24.390 --> 00:35:23.070

Matt Christensen: I love watching the evolution of podcasters if you're not a podcaster you don't know what episode seven. How significant episode seven is until you've done a podcast. But I think one of the things that I try and do my hardest with is when I find a new podcast. I don't get so focused on the production of it, but the content because really, unless you've got deep pockets or you've got all the time in the world.

You're going to hear clipping. You're going to hear background noise, there's probably going to be dogs barking and as a podcaster. You want to put out your best material. But if you look at people's episode one, and then you look at episode 30 and then a hundred, three hundred.

You get to see that evolution. You're going to be a part of that evolution. So yeah, it's, don't be too judgmental people. The fact that Kelly let me in on this podcast. Don't judge her for that.

00:35:25.500 --> 00:35:45.150

Kelly Paxton: Well, okay, we know that we can find you on LinkedIn because you're on LinkedIn A lot. That's how I think we initially connected, years and years ago.

But so you're on LinkedIn and then CyberCraft Summit, which was this year and you can still buy the recordings. Can you till the end of the year?.

00:35:45.630 -->00:36:45.510

Matt Christensen: You can, yeah, we decided, look, this is, this isn't something we were trying to, you know, make millions on we just gave away over $100,000 worth of training.

If we're just going to call it as is. And that was so rewarding for us. So he said, Okay, let's set the CPE where people can have full access to it for a year, take it at their own pace.

35 credits and they can get it you know for 100 and I know under $200. And so we said let's just keep it at that and it's been great. It's been great to see.

More and more people go there and they can get training in anti-fraud, they can get training in cybersecurity.

And for the most part, it will qualify as CPE credits you know for that additional learning. So yeah, it was just one area that we felt like we could continue making that training awesome and affordable. 

00:36:45.570 --> 00:36:57.000

Kelly Paxton: Yeah, Well, as I said, it was, it was fantastic. And then this goes back to my days of doing background investigations. What haven't I asked you that you want to tell the audience?

00:36:59.430 --> 00:38:00.240

Matt Christensen: Man, that's a great question, Kelly.  I guess I always like ending on a positive note. And if you like this podcast I would ask you, and Kelly, you didn't pay me to do this. But I would ask you to share it with Other people that you think could change their life. Right. I mean, it only takes one person to change someone's career that changes their whole pedigree. And that's the power of it. So I guess.

What haven't you asked me, you haven't asked me how we can together make a whole bunch of people's lives better. Right. Find and bring amazing people that didn't get a criminal justice degree that didn't go in the military or not, law enforcement, but want to be able to fight fraud.

That's how we do it, we do it together as a community and we bring in people from every industry because there's not a single industry that doesn't have a product here in it.

00:38:01.680 --> 00:38:16.380

Kelly Paxton: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I want to thank you so much because you are one busy guy and you will always have the honor of being the first Great Man in Fraud on Great Women in Fraud, so thank you so much, Matt

00:38:17.430 --> 00:39:04.800

Matt Christensen: I may not be the greatest man in fraud but I am honored to be the first male on Great Women in Fraud. Kelly, you're doing an awesome job. I know that this podcast will change people's lives. I think we're gonna you're making a big difference in the community, a huge dent, and raising not just awareness, but actually generating action, people will listen to your show and it will change their lives. And guess what anyone that we bring into this field that, then can prevent fraud from occurring.

Think of how many people's lives, we just saved or jobs we saved or pain or money, the more prevention, we can bring to the field, the better. This world is Thanks, Kelly. It's been an honor.

00:39:05.340 --> 00:39:06.030

Kelly Paxton: Thank you.