Great Women In Fraud

Episode 16 Elizabeth Simon, Former Regent ACFE

January 12, 2021 Kelly Paxton, CFE
Great Women In Fraud
Episode 16 Elizabeth Simon, Former Regent ACFE
Great Women In Fraud
Episode 16 Elizabeth Simon, Former Regent ACFE
Jan 12, 2021
Kelly Paxton, CFE

Elizabeth Simon has done most all jobs accounting but her passion has always been fraud prevention.  Take a listen to how she almost became a lawyer (I considered it too) but the insights of working fraud is been helpful throughout her career.  She is a former Regent for the ACFE and a regular speaker on ethics and compliance.  

Show links:

Ethical Systems

Twitter for Ethical Systems:

Rob Chestnut’s book:

Show Notes Transcript

Elizabeth Simon has done most all jobs accounting but her passion has always been fraud prevention.  Take a listen to how she almost became a lawyer (I considered it too) but the insights of working fraud is been helpful throughout her career.  She is a former Regent for the ACFE and a regular speaker on ethics and compliance.  

Show links:

Ethical Systems

Twitter for Ethical Systems:

Rob Chestnut’s book:

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Kelly Paxton: We are again so lucky today to have another great woman in fraud and

The reason I was excited to have Elizabeth Simon was a lot of reasons, but one of the things is, she was a Regent for the ACFE and I'm a huge proponent of the CFE designation.

And I thought, what a better person to be on Great Women in Fraud. So, Elizabeth. Why don't you introduce yourself and kind of give your journey is your journey in the fraud world.

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Elizabeth Simon:  Absolutely. So I like to say that I've done just about everything that you can do with an accounting degree.

I started out in bookkeeping and taxes internal and external audits and forensic accounting and now I'm in compliance in my career. I've been a Certified Fraud examiner for about 14 years now. And during those 14 years I've used my certification in forensic investigations that UI. And then in house at doing internal audit doing fraud focus data analytics and then investigating ethics hotline cases. And then I was elected to the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners Board of Regents in 2017 and served there for two years. Before joining the board of the local chapter of the ACFE in Georgia, and I guess you could say that I kind of grew up in fraud prevention. But I really don't do it much anymore. So now I'm much more focused on compliance and ethics. And on building out compliance programs for companies to ensure that employees are living the values of the company and following the laws and then mitigating any compliance related risk. Risk and reputational risk so that  in my current company so that our residents can have a place to call home. And you know if there are any other fraud issues that come up in the, in the future, I would be a part of that investigation and lead those investigations, but luckily that risk is much lower for us in industry that I'm in now than it is for other industries that I've been in

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Kelly Paxton: Well, you are not the first person who has been on Great Women in Fraud that is talked about proactive and I think it is so important to be proactive to stop the fraud, you know, penny wise pound foolish, but, you know, we, it's just you've done a lot of investigations and it's better to stop them before they start

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Elizabeth Simon: Absolutely I would completely agree. I mean, even my first role in house in fraud was really around prevention and building out the fraud prevention program for the company. And now I do that on a compliance and ethics side as well so absolutely agree with that.

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Kelly Paxton: Well, and another fellow podcaster Christian Hunt of the Human Risk podcast. He and I have, you know, talked over this past year, you put a good person in a bad environment, they still can go bad, so it's easier to make it a good environment.

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Elizabeth Simon: And yeah, absolutely. I heard statistics from the FBI. I think it was that said that 10% of your employees are always going to do the right thing. No matter what you do.

10% of your employees are always will do the wrong thing no matter what you do, and it's those 80% in the middle that it's a situational ethics type of thing where if they're presented with the right type of situations opportunities, etc. Then they may choose the wrong course of action. But if you put in front of them. You know the values and the choices that they could make and what the company expects of them, then they may be more likely to go and choose what the right thing.

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Kelly Paxton: Well, and that's how my career has kind of evolved is I would much rather put, you know, make it a good culture and stop it before it starts because you know

Good people make bad choices and it's no fun being an investigator. When you have that good person who sitting across the table from you, and they've done something really horrific. And so it's just a lot better to not have it happened in the first place.

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Elizabeth Simon: So really,

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Kelly Paxton: I was just listening to a podcast with Kara Swisher and Brene Brown. Are you familiar with Brene Brown?

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Elizabeth Simon: I've heard that name, but I'm not familiar with.

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Kelly Paxton: Like Oprah loves her, and everything. And it was about shame and humiliation and just having a good environment is so incredibly important.

Like people want to do the right things, except that the end of the bell curve is your 10% that are going to do it no matter what. And the 10%, you know, but it's the 80% that we can really affect which is so much more important.

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Elizabeth Simon: Absolutely, absolutely. And that's what we try to do in the compliance and ethics team is really provide those 80% with the resources and the tools to make the right choices.

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Kelly Paxton: Well, so we're going to kind of jump around on the questions here because this kind of leads to, if you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self, what would you tell yourself. Do you, did you ever foresee this career.

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Elizabeth Simon: I know my career has gone all over the place. And this is really a hard question because my 18 year old self, probably wouldn't listen to me. And like many 18 year olds. They don't listen to advice. But I think the one thing that I would probably tell myself is to go to law school right out of undergrad. As much as I believe that my lack of a law degree actually helps me in my profession, there are still way too many people out there that believe that you need a JD to do compliance. So that's probably one of the things that I would

You know tell myself is that just because you're done with your, you know, bachelor's degree in your master's degree. Once you get out of college that you know you probably should go for the law. The law degree as well but I really think that just not having that has actually helped me in my career and being able to translate the the legal speak that a lot of folks in what I do now. You know what they are trying to say for the layman, and I think it's really actually helped me in my career.

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Kelly Paxton: That is so interesting because my daughter is a senior in college and for the longest time I thought she was going to be a lawyer and I'm like oh god no. Please, please, no And now I'm like, You need to go to law school. And part of that is the whole compliance and ethics world. Is it really they want that. But at the same time they need an investigator. So I was on with Mary surely she had a Mary Shirley and Lisa fine who I know you know through Great Women in Compliance. They had a book launch party of Sending the Elevator Back Down.

 And I was put in a breakout room with this woman who is an attorney head of compliance for a big pharmaceutical company and she someone in the breakout room said my lot of my lack of law degree holds me back and she goes, Oh no, not if

 Not if I were to look at. So there's this thing where there's this thing where like compliance and ethics. You see, if you need that law degree, but a lot of people that are in it that have the law degrees are like we don't want people with five degrees. So that's so interesting.

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Elizabeth Simon: And actually, that's what my current boss said to me when he was hiring me is that, you know, they don't. They aren't looking necessarily for a lawyer for compliance and I work very closely with attorneys. And love them and have the greatest respect for them. In fact, my dad was an attorney, and he was, you know, a big piece of how I got to where I am today. But you don't necessarily need to be an attorney to, you know, affect the culture of your company and to ensure that the company is compliant with the laws and regulations that you do have to comply with. It's really about  making the communication to the employees and the values and the culture of the company known to your employees so that they can make the right choices.

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Kelly Paxton: Oh, I am going to send this to my friend who has the kind of Um, you know, imposter syndrome and I will admit, I have the imposter syndrome about not having a law degree and I thought of it in my late 20s, before I became a federal agent. I looked at going to law school. And I couldn't stomach, the debt. There was just, I couldn't stomach it and I look back, and I'm like, Okay, I would have made a lot more money, had I had JD after my name, but I wouldn't have gotten to do any of the cool stuff. I have gotten to do so, you know,

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Elizabeth Simon: Yeah, it's definitely affect I mean not affected, necessarily, but driven my career in different directions. And it's, it would have been a lot of debt, it would have been a lot of time and it just wasn't something that I wanted to pursue at the time.

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Kelly Paxton: Yeah. Oh, that's so funny. We're just like very similar that

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Elizabeth Simon: Way. Yeah.

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Kelly Paxton: Um, so what are, what are some best resources that have helped you along the way. And I think you're probably going to say that a CFE is one of them.

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Elizabeth Simon: Absolutely. The ACFE, I would say, is a great resource for members. Their website is just has so much information. There's a really great fraud risk assessment tool that I've used in if you haven't used it already. I would really encourage you to use it.

They built that tool out really well. And then they have great training and other resources on their website as well. And then the local chapters of the a CFP are another great resource to go to from a networking perspective and the ability to meet other people in that in the profession, but also from some of the resources that they put out on their websites and in their, you know, annual meetings or monthly meetings. And then on the compliance side I have really enjoyed being a part of the Ethics and Compliance initiative ECI And that's an organization that does research into compliance topics and areas of interest within the compliance profession.

And I've been participating in three working groups that are creating white papers around various different compliance topics. The ones that are participating in our third party compliance risk management internal stress factors and how they impact compliance and ethics and then yes,... And they have a lot of resources for members as well on their website, as well as other white papers in various different areas of compliance and ethics.

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Kelly Paxton: So I don't know this for sure. I'm going to take a risk here, you know, are you familiar with the Ethical Systems out of New York?

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Elizabeth Simon: No, no.

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Kelly Paxton: Okay, I'm going to send you that stuff. And I'll put a link on the show notes but Ethical Systems you yeah you're going to love them, you are

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Elizabeth Simon: Oh that's on your time to bridge academia.

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Kelly Paxton: And business and Allison Taylor who's kind of she's, she's, she's amazing. Someday I hope to get her on the podcast. But it's a really fantastic group. So I'll send you a link for that and I'll put it on the show notes because i think i think we have a lot of similar you know it's ties behavior to, you know, risk and ethics and compliance and all that sort of things so

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Elizabeth Simon: That's awesome. I would love to see that.

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Kelly Paxton: We're risk nerds.

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Elizabeth Simon: Right. That's right.

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Kelly Paxton: That was another question I have is one common myth about your profession or field that you want to debunk. Well, one of them is the law school, or you know that another one.

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Elizabeth Simon: So I would say the other one is around us being the Department of No. 

 And anytime that you go to compliance we're telling you know you can't do that. And I think that also kind of goes along with the legal department as well. I think

That the myth is that if you ask advice of the legal department, then they're going to say no. And that's completely a myth. I mean, what we really want to do is we want to be a trusted partner with the business to find out how we can do what they're wanting to do in a risk list or or risk mitigated environment and and help them to still succeed in what they want to do, but

 Not fall into the traps of, you know, reputational risk issues or doing the wrong thing, in accordance with the laws or regulations that the company has so we don't want to say no, we want to say yes, but or yes let's figure out how to do this.

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Kelly Paxton: Yeah, kind of like an improv. Yes, and

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Elizabeth Simon: And that's right, that's right.

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Kelly Paxton: So, we talked about how how you're continuing to learn, but we you know we always talk before the podcast and

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Kelly Paxton: Two of the people a shout out to marry surely great women in compliance, but also another one that we kind of have like Rockstar Rob Chestnut and you said you just finished his book.

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Elizabeth Simon: Yeah. So Rob has recently published a book Intentional Integrity and I absolutely love it and would recommend it to any of the listeners of this podcast as well. He just goes, he, he was the

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Elizabeth Simon: Chief Ethics officer at Airbnb. And he goes through a lot of what he implemented in his company to ensure that the company was intentional about their integrity and some of that is just  you know, documenting and writing and policies. This is what we are going to do and this is what we aren't going to do and not leaving a lot of that gray out there so that people could make the wrong choice. So when we're talking about that 80% and we had talked about earlier.  And ensuring that they have the tools and resources to make the right choice. Actually documenting it and writing it out that you are not going to do certain things and and that's being intentional about the integrity One of the examples that you gave is around sexual harassment and a lot of companies can get into trouble around sexual harassment and so the rule was if you have an office relationship that then you know  you end up having some kind of reporting relationship around. It's the one that's the higher up in the company that has to resolve that conflict versus the one that's the lower in the company. And a lot of times

 In other companies. It was always the one who is lower in the totem pole that had to make that choice or make that move or change and it impacted their career. So in writing that out. It avoids or it

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Elizabeth Simon: Keeps other people who are higher up on the the chain from taking advantage of the people that are lower down in the company. So things will just think little things like that where you can define out what you're going to do as a company and ensuring the integrity of all of the you know the employees are the team members within the company. It is something that you can do to help that 80% to make those right choices.

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Kelly Paxton: Well, I heard him on a podcast. And I think I'm going to get this right, he said, you get one know and so ask someone out

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Elizabeth Simon: That's another one. Yes.

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Kelly Paxton: No, and it was like oh my god that's genius so simple. All it is is one no.

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Kelly Paxton: And once you get to, you're done. And it's like,

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Kelly Paxton: Why do we have to make it so complicated. It's like it's just one nos. So I heard him on that podcast. And I was like, thinking like

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Elizabeth Simon: Nah.

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Kelly Paxton: Not rocket science. But, and then also on that podcast also talked about a woman who had come from another tech company.

 And when she heard his presentation. I think she said she started crying because she was like, this is never how it's been anywhere else. So yeah, I just, um,

I don't know. I don't know if I have too much imposter syndrome, to try and get him on this podcast but he seems like just such a nice guy, that he might do it. So maybe we will try and get him in the new year to do it because yeah he well

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Elizabeth Simon: He would be a great guest for sure.

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Kelly Paxton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, we've got, like, you know, hero crushes

 If you had the chance to attend college now which we do because it's coven and everything's online. Are there any classes that like or subjects that you would really be interested in taking

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Elizabeth Simon: I think I would probably want to learn more about the psychology of why people do bad things.

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Elizabeth Simon: So I've heard it said that most major fraudsters have both the narcissistic personality disorder and the antisocial personality disorder and I'd love to learn more about that concept and the possibility of predicting a fraudster rather than catching one after the fact. So I might think about taking like a psychology class or some kind of social behavior class or something like that.

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Kelly Paxton: Yeah, yeah. Oh, and after that I do this podcast today. I'm actually listening to Sam Antar who is the Crazy Eddie guy. He's doing a class. And so I've signed up for his just one hour presentation because I've seen him in person and he's an interesting fraudster in the fact that  he, he's very upfront. He goes, I'm not going to say I'm never going to do it again. Like, he goes  I can't as human say that I will never do it again because I didn't ever say that I was going to do in the first place. And I think, I think that's a little bit interesting different fraudster take them. Most of them.

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Elizabeth Simon: Yeah, there's a lot to that I think

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Kelly Paxton: Yeah. Yeah. And I had a colleague of mine who we sat next to each other when we saw him and he hated him. He was like,I can't believe he's here and he hated and I'm like, you have to listen to them because this is someone who's done it. So we have, we as investigators need to listen to that soI disagreed on that. And so, um,

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Kelly Paxton: How long did it take you to see success. I mean, I think you've been successful from day one. You started at EY and that's a big. That's a big start for people

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Elizabeth Simon: Yeah, I mean, in my forensic accounting world at why was my start. But I would say that first of all, I don't think that success is tied to money or a title. I think it's

 It's there's really a lot that you can put into the word success and I can think of really two defining moments in my career where I started to feel like I was actually successful the first one was really the first time that I was asked to be a part of a panel at a conference and

 You know, I was able to really contribute and help others in their compliance programs.

 And then the second one was when I thought I could really help someone's individual career. So a few jobs fact, I had a direct report, who told me that

I was the first manager that she had that she felt really cared about her and her career development. And so when I found out that I could really make a difference in her career and somebody else's career. I think that's how I really felt like I needed, so to speak.

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Kelly Paxton: Yeah, the word success. And I think if we talked about, I have to reduce some of my questions to go out and I'm torn on success because people kind of most people revert to money. Lot of people on the podcast. And when I asked that question. It's like

 Well, at one time it was money, but now it's different. It's my legacy or, you know, and I would say I'm not earning as much as I did when you know I was a corporate investigator.

 But I'm influencing a lot more people. So I consider myself more successful. Now, but if you have that measure. So I'm going to have to sort of redo that question because it's such a loaded word

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Elizabeth Simon: But yeah, it really is. And yeah, I don't think it's about the money or the title.

 Or even the network. I mean, kids these days. I think success is the number of views, they have to a post or the number of likes. They have I know my kids are that way but I think success really is about how are you impacting other people's lives and other people's careers. Yeah.

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Kelly Paxton: I totally, totally agree with that, um, Some of these questions. Just don't respond to you because like or don't reflect Reflect to you. Did you ever think of giving up and getting a real job you've always had a real job. So that question doesn't. But did you ever think of like, you know, going to work at Starbucks or becoming an artist.

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Elizabeth Simon: So I love my job and I wouldn't trade it for much of anything, but I will say that back in the late 2000s. I thought about quitting my job and becoming a personal trainer.

 Yeah, if I could do my dream job. And I wouldn't have to worry about money than it would totally be personal training. I have a big fitness I you know Big fitness. You know, I'm big into that and

 I almost quit my job and did that but then the recession of 2008 happens I'm really glad that I didn't Have you know personal training will probably be the first luxury item to go for many people, and I'd probably be out on the streets.

 But I love running. I'm an endurance runner and would love fitness, just in general and helping other people to become fit. So that's probably if I had to get a different job that would be it.

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Kelly Paxton: Oh, that's, that's interesting. Well,

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Kelly Paxton: You're in a stressful field. We're in stressful fields. So having that physical outlook, like I'm a runner. I'm not endurance runner. I have run marathons in the past but

 It is and i i don't meditate religiously, but I kind of consider my runs that time that I would meditate, I have to, I have to physically

 Do activity like yesterday. I wasn't able to outside of taking a quick walk and it just, I don't know when you have a stressful job or stressful career, you need the physical outlet. So I

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Elizabeth Simon: Know, yeah I mean it's my way to clear my head and I saw so many work problems when I'm running.

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Kelly Paxton: Oh my god, this is so funny. So I worked a big case, a long time ago and

 I was out running and I was listening to a podcast and I heard this thing about this was a while ago in like 2014 that you could see people who had bought followers

 And I came back and I went to my attorneys and I was working with and I said,

That these three people have bought followers and she's like, What are you talking about

 And sure enough, it ended up in a lawsuit that they had bought followers to show their social influence but they had bought them. So yeah, I've, I can't tell you how many things I've solved. Also, while I've been out running. So, yeah.

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Elizabeth Simon: Yeah, I mean it really clears your head.

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Kelly Paxton: Yeah, and it makes you think about totally yeah so I yeah she's like, how did you find this I'm like running a pipe.

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Kelly Paxton: You know,

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Elizabeth Simon: I listened to all my podcasts do so.

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Kelly Paxton: Yeah, absolutely. It's like I don't commute anymore so

 Like I have to do it while I'm running or we walk the dog a couple times a day. So, you know, I get to do it during that too. Um, what are some things that people struggle with in this field, do you think

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Kelly Paxton: Oh, what are some things that people struggle with in this field of investigations compliance and ethics.

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Elizabeth Simon: Question, they don't know the answer to you.

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Kelly Paxton: Well, I think we talked about a little bit that we need to have that physical outlet

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Elizabeth Simon: Yeah, that's, that's absolutely true. So, I mean, in a stress any kind of stressful type of career, you got to have that that physical outlet and to be able to clear your mind and to to think straight

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Kelly Paxton: Well then, I mean, another thing not to feed it sometimes we bring bad news to a corporation and it affects our brand.

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Kelly Paxton: And you know, I can look at a lot of CFEs, auditors chief audit executive who in their tenure hasn't been incredibly long and you know why the tenure isn't incredibly long. They get tired of you know us walking in the door with like, you know, this is messed up.

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Elizabeth Simon: So, not only that, but I think that in some cases you get put in sticky situations. That you have to be able to walk away from your job. So if you are coming to the audit committee or you're coming to leadership and with with a, you know,

 senior leader who is doing something wrong. Then, and then they're like, okay, we're just going to, you know, push it under the rug. I mean sometimes you need to be the one to speak out or to leave because if they're not living the values then I'm you. How can you do your job properly.

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Kelly Paxton: I mentor, a lot of younger people, and I say, you always have to have the F You fund because you have to be able to walk away.

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Elizabeth Simon: Yeah, absolutely.

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Kelly Paxton: You know, that was a lesson that I learned a long, long time ago. And even if you don't have it. If you have the sort of like mentality of having it.

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Kelly Paxton: That you need to be able to walk away. I've never been asked to do something to cross the line, but I worked with someone who I knew my boss would ask them because they knew they didn't have that line. So yeah, I just

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Elizabeth Simon: Yeah, and I've never had to do that either. Luckily, I've been working for very good companies very ethical companies that

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Elizabeth Simon: I never had. I was never put in that kind of position, but you never know what what you're going to come up with and

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Elizabeth Simon: Most of the fraudsters most of the people that are doing the bad things they are developing good relationships with people and people think that they're really great people.

That they are you know trustworthy and whatnot. And they're hiding all of that. I mean, that's the big thing about fraud is that people hide what they're doing the wrong things they're doing so.

 I've never been put in a situation where I had to make the choice of stay in a toxic environment or leave. Um, but I could certainly see where something like that could happen.

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Kelly Paxton: Well, and I also saw on your LinkedIn profile which obviously you know you guys listening out there. You want to hook up with Elizabeth on LinkedIn.

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Kelly Paxton: Is that you did a lot of work with the alert line and my biggest cases have come from, you know, tips, so it's so important that people understand that, you know, no retaliation

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Elizabeth Simon: Absolutely. So one of the key pieces of my job is the whistleblower hotline and they could people call it different things, the alert line whistleblower hotline ethics hotline, whatever.

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Elizabeth Simon: But you know you you have to have some kind of an outlet for employees to report anonymously and You want you want them to feel comfortable coming to you with their name directly, but there has to be some kind of an outlet, just in case they don't

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Elizabeth Simon: Feel like they can do that without retaliation and then just reinforcing to the leadership as you're doing those investigations that you can't retaliate against these people

 Is so important and to have those policies in place and whatnot so that the come so it's clear again intentional integrity that we're not going to retaliate. Really the help lines in the whistleblower lines are there to help the company because

When you find something, or when somebody gives you a tip, then you are able to investigate it, and correct that situation before the misconduct becomes pervasive and when it becomes pervasive. Then you've got a toxic culture in your company and nothing good can come out of that.

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Kelly Paxton: No, no.

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Kelly Paxton: I recently was consulting with an entity and they're scared to put in a hotline and I can show them facts that that's how we get cases and fraud is discovered that way.

But they're kind of scared of the unknown. They think it's just going to open up this, you know, and it's just going to take a little bit of education and I know that eventually they'll do it, especially with And that tips are the number one way I love auditors but auditors sample and, you know,

00:29:36.330 --> 00:29:37.290

Elizabeth Simon: So, yeah.

00:29:37.350 --> 00:29:38.880

Kelly Paxton: Yeah, yeah. Um,

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Kelly Paxton: What advice would you give to someone who's entering this field because again you are as an ACFE Regent. That is a testament to your skills and to your reputation into your network.

00:29:54.570 --> 00:29:59.250

Elizabeth Simon: Yeah, I think the biggest advice I would give someone is never stop learning.

00:30:00.330 --> 00:30:12.210

Elizabeth Simon: One of my strengths on the strength finders is that I'm a learner. So I love to learn new things and I think it's really helped me a lot in my career to to continue to learn

00:30:12.570 --> 00:30:22.830

Elizabeth Simon: About the various different areas of compliance about the different areas within you know accounting with with fraud. I mean, there's so many different areas from

00:30:23.490 --> 00:30:38.130

Elizabeth Simon: Anti bribery and corruption to any money laundering to OSHA Labor Relations whistleblower hotlines fraud investigations, all kinds of different things that you can learn about. So that's what I would probably the advice I would give is just never stop learning.

00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:47.070

Kelly Paxton: Yeah. And that is a consistent thread from my first episode with Cynthia Hetherington she's like we're curious, we, we are learners. And every guest that I have had has been consistent about we are learners and never stop learning. So yeah, well, um, there's another question. There's two more questions. What haven't I asked you that you want me to ask you anything.

00:31:11.910 --> 00:31:22.740

Elizabeth Simon: I guess the, the biggest thing is is just are the information that I would want listeners to know is, you know, that helping other people helps you

 And I think the more that you can put out there, the more that you can share to help other people. Then when you need that help

 And then they're going to be there for you. So I would say if there's something that you know that I would want listeners to know is just be open and be helpful to other people and then you'll, you'll be helped along the way as well.

00:31:52.530 --> 00:32:01.290

Kelly Paxton: I believe that so much because again, coming from a law enforcement background, we kept our sources tight and I had a hard time learning to share and

The sources like and now that I've given away my secret sauce. I'm giving away my secret sauce. Every week with this, it is come back. I'm going to say 100 fold

 And I truly, truly believe that. But it took a long time to get there because we want to we want to help ourselves for I mean there's just personal self preservation

 But, and maybe it's that we're at a point in our career that we can see that better but I truly believe it. I mean,is the fraud hashtag queen, one of my things is sharing is caring

 And I just listened to Marcy Phelps on another podcast and she's like, you know, give it away like it'll come back to you. Help. So yeah, absolutely.

And then when we talked about this before. What is the last thing that you've Googled before this interview and you gotta set it up. Why you Google that

00:32:57.060 --> 00:33:03.780

Elizabeth Simon: So one of the questions for the interview is what is your favorite word and

My husband and I were talking about this because I don't really have a favorite word and we couldn't really figure out an answer to that question. But he had mentioned that Nancy Pelosi had that same question asked of her

And so we Googled Nancy Pelosi's favorite word so we could watch the YouTube video.

00:33:23.580 --> 00:33:24.750

Kelly Paxton: That is so perfect. And it still didn't give you your favorite word I

00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:30.780

Elizabeth Simon: Still don't know what my favorite word is

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Kelly Paxton: Yeah, that's, I might have to change that question. Well, I cannot thank you enough. Elizabeth, because you are inspiring. You're motivating and you're doing

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Kelly Paxton: You're doing such incredible things, not only in the fraud and the ACFE world, but now compliance and ethics and I think it's a natural progression. So thank you. Thank you again for being here today.

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Elizabeth Simon: Absolutely. Kelly Thank you for having me.