Great Women In Fraud

Episode 22 Juliette Gust, CFE, Ethics Suite

March 02, 2021 Kelly Paxton, CFE Episode 22
Great Women In Fraud
Episode 22 Juliette Gust, CFE, Ethics Suite
Great Women In Fraud
Episode 22 Juliette Gust, CFE, Ethics Suite
Mar 02, 2021 Episode 22
Kelly Paxton, CFE
Show Notes Transcript

Welcome to another episode of Great Women in Fraud.  This week’s guest is Juliette Gust, CFE and co-founder of Ethics Suite.  My biggest cases have come from tips.  #Tipsfindfraud and how do you get tips?  Via a hotline, alertline whatever you want to call it.  Employees, customers, and concerned citizens need a place to alert the business about potential fraud.  There are some big players in the industry but I think in my experience the smaller size  business or municipality needs a reasonable and easy to implement and use solution.  Juliette saw that need.  Let’s get started hearing her experience and wisdom.

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Kelly Paxton: Welcome back to great women in fraud, and today we are so so lucky to have someone I consider a good friend, because I met Juliette Gust.

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Kelly Paxton: The IIA phoenix last year and just before COVID and everything and she took me out to lunch and I had to follow her on Linkedin and I'm going to call her the  whistleblower alert line like you know master of the universe, but Juliette why don't you introduce yourself, besides being a master of the universe when it comes to alert lines.

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Juliette: Thank you so much, and it's great to be on here.  I've seen some really wonderful people that you've hosted on your podcast and so I'm flattered to be one of them now.

And it was great to meet you in Phoenix I'm glad we had the opportunity before we all had to kind of lock ourselves down for a while, so that was really a highlight for me that year.

 So I don't know about master of the universe, but I have looked at reviewed and respond to really thousands of whistleblower hotline complaints, and so I think that.

 You know it's given me a really clear perspective on the reasons why people might use a hotline to complain, the reasons why they might not want to take their allegations directly to a supervisor. And most importantly, why they might take their complaints outside of their organization and complain through social media. or through maybe a regulatory agency or the EEOC, for example, something like that so um so yeah I've been doing this now for quite a long time, and after using other systems too.

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Juliette: collect the reports and aggregate the reports and track the incidents that I was investigating, I decided to develop my own software for that, and so we have my ethics sweet.

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Juliette: Case incident management platform, and I really wanted to kind of look at it from the investigator perspective because the people that use it, you know aren't always you know familiar with sophisticated software or they may just need certain fields available to them, and so we really try to customize it for them.

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Juliette: Try to make it as easy as possible for people that are investigators to use it, so that they can document what they think is important and not necessarily what you know, a software developer thinks is important to have on a certain page or because it looks good.

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Kelly Paxton: Well, and I had the absolute pleasure of being on a call with Juliette to walk a business through how the system would work and I mean, I have you know, been parts of other reporting things and I was so impressed, not only with Juliette but how customizable but simple your system could be for someone to navigate but then on the backside of how robust, it could be for the investigator and or the business to see what areas are kind of hotspots.

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Juliette: Yeah that's right, I mean being able to document any of the issues that are important at that time is very helpful because, for example, sometimes a litigation won't.

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Juliette: come around for 234 or five years and with turnover with you know our memories people forget, especially if you're particularly busy.

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Juliette: Not all organizations have you know full-time investigators fraud investigators or even HR people on staff and so it's important to be able to document so that you can remind yourself.

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Juliette: What happened at the time, what was the complaint what were the actions that were taken, why were those actions taken.

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Juliette: If there was no action taken, why was that decision made so that you can draw upon that later on in case you're called to do so.

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Juliette: You know, either in quarter for some other reason but we always tell our clients you don't have to document everything you don't have to use every bell and whistle but the more that you use.

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Juliette: The more that you can draw upon to aggregate data like you mentioned so, for example, I think it's really important to run monthly, quarterly annual reports.

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Juliette: For whoever it is that's invested in that business to say you know, do we have repeat offenders, so to speak, do we have complaints about the same person do we have complaints about the same fraud scheme, maybe in different areas of the company, there are some that have.

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Juliette: They have operations in 50 states and perhaps 10 of those states are seeing the very exact same scheme why how did that happen and so those patterns starts to emerge when you track them, and so the more that you track them when you can see those and I like to tell one story about how.

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Juliette: You know, when I worked for a specific company and ask them to make sure that all of the theft and fraud data was entered into the case management system.

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Juliette: Regardless of how it came in so, for example, if it came in through a whistleblower through the system, it was captured there.

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Juliette: But if somebody walked up to their supervisor walked over to HR wouldn't have been captured there, and so we ask them to enter that data.

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Juliette: As a new case into the system and through that we were able to see for my favorite example, as I said, you know in two different countries at five different locations.

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Juliette: There were people complaining that checks were intercepted and cashed by another party than the one they were intended to be.

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Juliette: And so what we did find because it was reported quickly because it was reported through the system we were able to see like I said in Canada and in the United States and across five four different States.

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Juliette: We could see that it was the same exact vendor, so why we're checks from five different places intercepted and cash, but all we're going to the same vendor.

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Juliette: And so having that information, we were able to call the vendor talk to their chief audit executive.

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Juliette: tell them what was going on and found out that there are lockbox had been broken into so it was a very simple solution to what was going on, but if we didn't know that quickly.

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Juliette: There could have been you know many more checks that had been intercepted that were stolen that day from the lockbox.

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Kelly Paxton: Well yeah I mean it's just information is so siloed and so you will have a different department, who you know isn't talking to another department and this just brings it all together.

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Kelly Paxton: And again, your system, I don't want to say it's simple, but it is simple it's like it's easy to fill out but it's easy to like also run the analytics and see where you're having Those sort of holes that people can drive you know, a truck through.

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Juliette: yeah we wanted to make it as easy as possible, because one thing is not every company, as I said, it has its own investigative department that they can rely on 24 seven to worry about these things, and so, if you're maybe a director of HR or maybe you're a compliance officer, or maybe you have you know, three different titles you're very busy.

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Juliette: And so it becomes you know cumbersome to be able to manage information manage data get it where you need it in a place that you need it so we did want to make it as simple as possible for people to do it quickly do it easily.

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Juliette: And do a lot of it themselves and not have to rely on the vendor, for example, to add new locations or to add new issue types if they want to.

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Juliette: run reports on, you know how many cases that I get this month, I had to do with harassment, how many had to do with public corruption and so on and so they have the freedom to customize it themselves.

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Juliette: without having to wait for you know support from us, although we're happy to do it, but we want them to have that freedom.

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Kelly Paxton: So I mean I consider you to be an entrepreneur, do you consider yourself to be entrepreneurial since you've done ethics sweet.

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Juliette: I do feel that way since everything's my fault.

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Juliette: or no, we, I have a partner as well, a business partner and so yeah we do feel that way because we did sell fund we developed the business we.

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Juliette: You know, did the marketing studies we both had the background, we think, to develop the software, we did have to use somebody else to.

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Juliette: You know, with that talent, to have the software developed, but you know it's really been our baby and it's kind of the whistleblower.

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Juliette: intake and tracking system that we always wanted to have when we were working with them and.

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Juliette: As far as being an entrepreneur yeah you do everything yourself, you know I do my own social media we do our own marketing we do our own you know search for conferences and so on, we are our own best salespeople, I think, as well, and so we try to stay as close as possible to the business so.

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Juliette: For inquiries, we like to do our own demos, because we think we're kind of the best voice of the business to do that.

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Juliette: And the same thing with answering questions from either future current clients, you know, or are they having a problem with not just how to use the system, but a lot of people are very.

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Juliette: If they don't have experienced resources at the company that are already familiar with responding to allegations. You know, sometimes they're a little bit afraid of how to approach a certain report, in some cases they might think that the report is not important, and they want to ignore it, and so they bounce things off of us and we're really happy that we can provide that help to them when they need it.

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Kelly Paxton: yeah I mean like I said when we did this call together, I just I was so incredibly impressed and.

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Kelly Paxton: The customization that you can do for different industries or you know different areas where there might be problems, not just fraud, I mean of course i'm interested in fraud.

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Kelly Paxton: But you know other areas, sexual harassment things like that, but then also we were talking before I jokingly said, you should have like you know, a covert or pandemic, you know drop down because right now, as you said, OSHA is just you know they can't keep up.

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Kelly Paxton: So, and you alluded to this at the beginning, where is, if you don't have some if a business doesn't have something like this.

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Kelly Paxton: or they don't feel an employee doesn't feel that they can go to their boss they're going to go outside and that reputational risk, I mean you know I love Twitter and I'm following a story on Twitter right now with Google.

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Kelly Paxton: And the reputational risk that they have suffered because that person went outside, even though they did try to do it through normal channels it's just it's huge. You have $1 on it.

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Juliette: It is actually a common theme and it's unfortunate that people do try to go internally first and then it's only after they feel like they were ignored.

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Juliette: or retaliated against for reporting that they start to go outside and so you know because of.

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Juliette: Because of being an entrepreneur because of trying to draw attention to the importance of whistleblower hotlines I do a ton of research, you know, every day, sometimes.

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Juliette: You know wake up extra early, so I can get you know those stories posted on LinkedIn or on Twitter myself, I know you do the same, so I see you smiling.

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Juliette: So you know I look at them and there really is a common theme that people say, well, I tried to talk to my supervisor they didn't do anything about it, I tried to talk to HR I tried to talk to whatever nothing happened, or I was fired or.

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Juliette: My schedule was changed, and so, then I decided to go to the EEOC instead or I decided to post it on Facebook instead because that's how it would get attention and that if you see.

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Juliette: Last year, I believe the whistleblower reports to the SEC increased over 30% I believe it was 31%.

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Juliette: And so the same has happened with OSHA, as you mentioned, and with other agencies as well, and the common theme is we tried to say something at work, but nobody is listening to us.

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Juliette: So being able to address those issues internally, will certainly save not just financial damage but reputational damage, because once things get out on the Net they're there and they're there at the speed of than that right very quickly reputations can be ruined.

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Kelly Paxton: Well, and this brings me to Susan Fowler of uber I mean you know she did everything she was supposed to do and it just it fell on it didn't even fall on deaf ears, it just they retaliated and then so she went to Twitter and they literally lost billions do it.

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Juliette: that's exactly right it's not the only example, unfortunately, there have been quite a few, I know, for us, you know we have.

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Juliette: kind of the clients that are proactive and they know that they should have some sort of system in place, and not just the system because that's really just the Channel and the channel is only as good as the response to whatever is being reported through that channel so.

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Juliette: We find that, as people are trying to put together that program if they have savvy resources at the organization they're much more proactive, but we also have.

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Juliette: clients there on the opposite end of that they're not that savvy in terms of compliance programs and having the.

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Juliette: speaker kind of culture that will help prevent that reputational and financial damage and so those are the clients that we hear from you know what.

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Juliette: A big night Oh, my goodness, you know this is on Twitter and I have my lawyer says, I have to have a hotline by tomorrow morning, can you help me.

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Juliette: So you know we try to keep them from getting it getting to that point, because at that point it's a little bit late for their reputation, although, of course, the steps that they take can help mitigate the damage but.

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Juliette: There are some that like I said they'll wait until something happens and that's when they'll be able to kick into gear and do the things that they should have before to prevent that from happening.

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Kelly Paxton: So I speak a lot on ethics and sort of my soapbox on ethics are whistleblowers are heroes and as the audience knows I was retaliated against and that's why I do what I do now, but it's um.

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Kelly Paxton: it's one of those things that I say in ethics presentation whistleblowers are heroes, but I also say that if you're going to whistleblower you need a lawyer in advance, I don't know what are your thoughts about that I wish I had done that.

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Juliette: What I think it really depends, it depends on the nature of the issue right it depends on who's involved, you know, are you reporting about.

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Juliette: A co-worker coworker perhaps skimming cash or maybe embezzling from accounts receivable or do you have a complaint about the CEO of a public company.

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Juliette: that's a more serious issue, maybe a corruption allegation so you know there's a spectrum of the severity of the allegations and who the whistleblower is but there's also the possibility of reporting anonymously.

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Juliette: And a lot of people don't they say directly to my face I don't put stock in anonymous reporters I don't believe that anything that they have to say.

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Juliette: Which is really unfortunate because substantiation rates of issues brought up by anonymous versus name reporters are very similar.

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Juliette: The only problem is there are some people who are genuinely afraid, for you know their livelihoods for their reputations and we've seen the reasons why.

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Juliette: And so they really prefer to report anonymously so in those cases, if they choose to report anonymously, you know, do they have to go through the trouble and expensive finding an attorney maybe not it depends how seriously their allegation is taken, and whether it's remedy.

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Juliette: For others, you know, like I said it really depends, but I don't think that I think there's a lot of negativity around whistleblower I know that in some cases whistleblowers are heroes, but I've also seen cases where whistleblowers are.

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Juliette: Seeking retribution, you know they don't really have pure motives for whistleblowing but that said it doesn't make what their whistleblowing about any less true.

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Juliette: It could certainly be true whatever they're alleging but their motives for reporting it.

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Juliette: could be skewed so you know, in that case, what I call them a hero, I would have they done it sooner, but now, for example, if somebody is fired from a company.

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Juliette: They may have kept information over time that they thought could be a whistleblower issue but didn't bring it up, because it wasn't convenient for them.

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Juliette: And then, after they're terminated, it is convenient for them so so I that's why I'm very careful about you know the whistleblower because it certainly depends on why they're whistleblowing who it is, and if they remain anonymous.

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Juliette: I think there are some and we've talked about this before who try to find out the identity of the whistleblower but I certainly against that I think if somebody didn't want to provide their name they won't.

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Juliette: and, interestingly throughout the course of investigation, you may have found this yourself whistleblowers will name themselves if they're comfortable with the person investigating if they're able to keep up a dialogue, you know, for example.

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Juliette: Our case management system allows chat messaging back and forth, so that you don't have to know who it is, but you can still communicate with them.

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Juliette: So if they check it back and they understand that someone's taking their allegations seriously eventually they do choose to name themselves and that's not unusual at all.

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Kelly Paxton: Well, in my biggest cases have come from tips they absolutely have come from tips, and when I do that hashtag whistleblowers are heroes, I had a Co-worker who I know use the alert line three times for her own benefit.

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Kelly Paxton: And so you know I think that's rare, but I do think it happens so you know it's not pure that nothing is 100% pure right.

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Juliette: And you have some cases I've seen people leagues and then with some flow, which is also unfortunate because.

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Juliette: They may have really love their work, they may have really loved it or other things that they were doing, but perhaps something within that realm.

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Juliette: Was unethical or illegal and they didn't want to stand by and watch it without reporting.

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Juliette: And if it got ignored internally, they may quit and then reported externally and so now their relationship is adversarial and so you know I I do think that there.

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Juliette: Is room for growth and on all sides for people to understand that you know if they have an issue if they report it if it's taken seriously.

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Juliette: Maybe that can be resolved internally and people can continue on with the career path that they had chosen in the first place, rather than have to leave.

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Juliette: Simply because they thought that their report wouldn't be taken seriously, or they thought they'd be retaliated against it's really a shame, I know just yesterday I was talking to someone who had confided in me that they thought they were passed up for a promotion.

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Juliette: And that the person that received that promotion only received it, because of a conflict of interest, if I can call it, maybe nepotism with.

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Juliette: The person hiring and they said, you know well i'm just going to leave and I thought, why you know, maybe you can make a case and talk to somebody and say what that position was in posted.

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Juliette: You know, which should other people have been allowed to apply for it, is that the case and see it through before you go, but you never know what can happen unless you try to fix it.

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Kelly Paxton: yeah so This leads me to do you have a favorite whistleblower movie.

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Juliette: Oh, I do but it's a comedy.

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Juliette: The Other Guys.

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Kelly Paxton: Might not probably quoted by her.

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Kelly Paxton: yeah oh my gosh I love The Other Guys.

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Juliette: yeah it's funny I think anyone who works with me doesn't get a day, where a quote doesn't come from that movie.

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Juliette: for something that I'm doing.

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Kelly Paxton:  what's a favorite book from other guys.

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Juliette: Oh geez there's so many I don't know if you remember, there is a scene, where they were in the in the office of the Attorney for the billionaire.

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Juliette: yeah remember him, and one of the officers is played by Mark Wahlberg he just couldn't understand the concept of the Federal Reserve.

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Juliette: yelling at the guy you know what I'm sure with you I'm going to lock you up in the Federal Reserve.

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Kelly Paxton: that's probably my.

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Juliette: My favorite see.

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Kelly Paxton: ya yeah Oh, that is so funny, yeah Oh, my goodness um that yeah I have to watch that movie cuz I'm doing a new thing fraud in pop culture and that's one of them.

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Kelly Paxton: that's one of the movies, I have listed, but I need to rewatch it, so I gotta watch it for that and I love it when they drive around in their previous.

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Kelly Paxton: yeah oh my God it's just too funny.

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Juliette: it's like if that keeps on giving if you, you know, I have to watch it I've probably seen it 30 times that used to be my favorite.

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Juliette: flight movie so whenever I took a flight and I traveled a lot, I had a handful of movies, that I just watched over and over again, because they made me laugh and forget about turbulence and so on and so the more I watched the movie the more of these gems pop up that.

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Juliette: You just don't notice it only watching it once or twice, you really have to hear the lines over and over.

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Kelly Paxton: Oh, my God that is so funny ah um so what's one thing you wish, you had known when you began your career I'm going to say as an investigator turned entrepreneur.

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Juliette: Oh.

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Juliette: geez I wish I knew so much.

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Juliette: it's funny because my first career was actually in hotel and food and beverage administration.

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Juliette: And at the time I wish I knew more about accounting and that was one of the things that led me to go back to school for an accounting degree so that's what I would have said, then you know I wish that I had spent.

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Juliette: As much time learning about business and finance, as I did about operations, you know, I was great at operations all over the place, worked, you know hundred hours a week.

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Juliette: But certainly could have learned more and only through having seen.

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Juliette: That thefts and fraud that took place under my nose was how I became interested in it, I really love being able to investigate, I really found that you know kind of stretching my imagination.

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Juliette: choose the things that I'd known and general common sense at the time, because it certainly wasn't.

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Juliette: Accounting knowledge that led me to you know go back to school for the forensic accounting degree and after that I would say what I wish I had known then was to take the CPA exam very quickly.

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Juliette: that's certainly a regret because I, you know was off and running I was traveling all the time I was really loving, the new career enjoying investigations enjoying traveling and.

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Juliette: didn't never sat for the CPA exam I did for the CFP, but so that's something I would tell someone you do what you can and when you're not quite as busy because it gets more difficult later.

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Kelly Paxton: Well that's that's the theme on great women in fraud is that we're such a lifelong learners there has not been one guests that come on the show that it's just like you have to consistently be learning.

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Kelly Paxton: I mean, yes don't learn you're you know you're done you're just done so, and I can see that, with all this stuff you have done in your career that's so funny because one of my favorite TV shows growing up, I don't know if you remember it is hotel.

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Kelly Paxton: Do you mean yes.

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Juliette: I like soccer right.

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Kelly Paxton: mm hmm yeah I absolutely love that.

00:22:53.100 --> 00:22:55.500

Kelly Paxton: They have a career in hotels.

00:22:55.620 --> 00:23:11.280

Kelly Paxton: I thought, and one of my biggest cases was a hotel embezzlement and it was fascinating to me it was just it was absolutely fascinating with you know all the different reservation systems and things like that yeah it's.

00:23:12.330 --> 00:23:22.620

Juliette: it's a wonderful business but yeah lifelong learning, certainly great I know on my bucket list you know when people ask what would you do if you had a couple of years free time I say I'm going to go to law school that's next.

00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:25.440

Kelly Paxton: Oh, my God that would not be what I want to do.

00:23:28.020 --> 00:23:30.150

Kelly Paxton: You know me and my issues with lawyers.

00:23:31.830 --> 00:23:37.560

Kelly Paxton: Well, this goes to the next question, if you could work in a different job field, what would that be, would it be, as a lawyer.

00:23:39.810 --> 00:23:48.390

Juliette: I kind of consider them partners so to me it would be the same job field, you know I work with so many lawyers and I really have had a.

00:23:49.530 --> 00:24:04.770

Juliette: Great relationship with almost all of them I've learned so much from them and, interestingly, even the ones that I had adversarial relationships with so, for example, if I was being deposed I think I was probably the only person, maybe they ever had to depose that was excited about it.

00:24:05.130 --> 00:24:16.020

Juliette: Because I wanted to learn something like you know go ahead, give it to me, I want to see how you can interview me and maybe I can learn something from my interviews, so I think I was always an extremely cooperative.

00:24:16.050 --> 00:24:25.680

Juliette: Witness and definitely super upbeat but if honestly, if I were to do something completely different I love to dance, I think I would have to hit school.

00:24:28.860 --> 00:24:32.880

Kelly Paxton: I have two left feet, so I can do, one of your customers I don't think he could fix it.

00:24:34.140 --> 00:24:37.920

Juliette: could try it's certainly fun and a great way to you know.

00:24:38.460 --> 00:24:51.180

Juliette: Especially in the business that we're in it's very stressful it's very all consuming so to me, you know, once the music is on and someone else is telling you what to do, or you have to follow the steps, then all that goes away, at least for that little while.

00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:52.800

Kelly Paxton: yeah yeah.

00:24:52.980 --> 00:24:58.710

Kelly Paxton: Oh, my God fun. What advice would you give someone who's entering this field?

00:25:00.570 --> 00:25:01.140

Juliette: Oh.

00:25:03.360 --> 00:25:04.320

Juliette: So much.

00:25:05.370 --> 00:25:07.080

Juliette: I think one of the things that.

00:25:08.250 --> 00:25:11.910

Juliette: I see accountants, for example, especially from.

00:25:12.990 --> 00:25:33.870

Juliette: I think you're familiar with this, you know my I'm Hispanic by background and the first to go to college, you know my family, and I know a lot of students that are fortunate enough, and you know, certainly make the time or had support that were able to go through school.

00:25:35.550 --> 00:25:42.120

Juliette: To kind of focus on accounting, as if it was tax or audit and they don't see all of the other.

00:25:42.900 --> 00:25:53.910

Juliette: avenues available to them and accounting so that will be one thing that I tell people is look at there are so many things that you can do in accounting it doesn't necessarily have to be audit and tax.

00:25:54.540 --> 00:26:00.480

Juliette: As interesting as that might be, but I know that I got a lot of my brakes, and my career because.

00:26:01.170 --> 00:26:12.090

Juliette: I was willing to go outside of my comfort zone and because I spoke another language so for those people, I know that were brought up speaking Spanish at home that's a real advantage, so I know being in.

00:26:12.450 --> 00:26:16.350

Juliette: advisory services, for example, where people were looking for.

00:26:16.800 --> 00:26:23.850

Juliette: associates, you know it doesn't matter the experience you have but i'll teach you, but I need you to be able to speak Spanish fluently wherever we're going or.

00:26:24.120 --> 00:26:32.670

Juliette: Whatever language, it is that might be, you know, for some people, it was Chinese depends, where the hotspots are, and so I was able to be staffed on you know some really exciting.

00:26:33.330 --> 00:26:48.780

Juliette: Corruption investigations, money laundering, investigations fraud investigations and you know all because I got that first break of being able to get in because of my background, so I would say, use all of the talents, that you have available certainly don't be shy about them.

00:26:50.100 --> 00:27:02.520

Juliette: that's another you know tough one, where people don't want to toot their own Horn and it is very uncomfortable but definitely be upfront about the skills that you bring to the table that aren't necessarily the ones that are in the job description yeah.

00:27:02.580 --> 00:27:16.710

Kelly Paxton: Well, you know there's a joke that men will apply for a job if they only have like you know 10 to 40% of the requirements and women will only apply if they have 110% of the requirements and one of them, they joke is, if you.

00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:21.750

Kelly Paxton: can speak Spanish and a guy will say, well, I know how to order a beer in Spanish.

00:27:23.970 --> 00:27:25.950

Juliette: it's really interesting and.

00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:33.780

Juliette: You know, to some extent, true, both male and female, because I know when I you know, later on, as my career progressed and I was staffing the different.

00:27:34.620 --> 00:27:45.660

Juliette: engagements in different countries and people would say you know I want to be on your engagement I speak Spanish fluently or whatever the language was, and I would call them and speak in Spanish, and a lot of them couldn't so.

00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:50.190

Juliette: definitely take stock of you and be honest about the level of your.

00:27:50.490 --> 00:28:02.190

Juliette: talents and whatever skill that might be, for example, I studied French in high school and college and I spent some time abroad with a tutor there as well, and Switzerland learning French, and I still say I'm a beginner.

00:28:02.670 --> 00:28:07.260

Juliette: You know, because it's not my native language I get stuck and I'm very comfortable reading it.

00:28:08.700 --> 00:28:13.710

Juliette: But you know what, especially when it comes to investigations, because there's so many nuances.

00:28:14.040 --> 00:28:22.290

Juliette: In the languages right when you're trying to read between the lines or you're trying to be persuasive or you're trying to establish rapport.

00:28:22.590 --> 00:28:34.350

Juliette: That not being able to do that very well in that particular language that you need is a detriment, and so I always definitely say you know be absolutely honest about what your skills are and what you're comfortable doing.

00:28:35.490 --> 00:28:43.950

Kelly Paxton: Well, this leads me to a podcast that I was listening to Are you familiar with Erin Meyer, she wrote the culture map.

00:28:44.910 --> 00:28:47.220

Juliette: I didn't read the book by I'm familiar with it.

00:28:47.610 --> 00:28:57.000

Kelly Paxton: yeah yeah so I was listening to it, and she compares some people to coconuts versus peaches like Russians are more like coconuts they're hard on the outside soft on the inside.

00:28:57.270 --> 00:29:05.430

Kelly Paxton: and Americans are more like peaches, where they're soft on the answer outside, but you get in the inside and they're very you know they've got their Armor so.

00:29:06.570 --> 00:29:15.000

Kelly Paxton: You know I've done international investigations and I wish I would have had the book The Culture map she has a new book out with Reed Hastings of Netflix.

00:29:15.600 --> 00:29:24.720

Kelly Paxton: No rules, rules and I haven't read that yet, but you know just the culture is so incredibly important, not just the language, but you know.

00:29:26.190 --> 00:29:37.620

Kelly Paxton: Looking at someone in the eyes in Japan versus you know not and things like that, so I love your background, because it is, it is international.

00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:43.230

Juliette: Thank you, it does it does get difficult, I know there have been some countries where I've been in where.

00:29:43.530 --> 00:29:50.280

Juliette: I really wanted to lead the interviews and I knew that I would be able to get the information I wanted, but I wasn't the appropriate person.

00:29:50.760 --> 00:30:01.860

Juliette: And so you know I would spend time training someone else or working with someone else to do that, and you know I didn't like it, but it was the best thing to do for the investigation and that's certainly true, it might not be.

00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:13.200

Juliette: The right fit for that particular discussion or certainly very important to understand, like you said, the cultural cues you know where should I said.

00:30:13.530 --> 00:30:32.610

Juliette: How should I dress How should I behave, how will I not make them uncomfortable what kind of words to the US, I know, particularly during anti-corruption type investigations, where you know the word bribe is absolutely not there was never a bribe here but i'm motivated them, you know so.

00:30:34.260 --> 00:30:37.020

Juliette: Certainly, different connotations to different words.

00:30:37.320 --> 00:30:46.890

Kelly Paxton: yeah absolutely oh my gosh so um how long did it take you to see success, do you think I think you've probably seen success numerous times.

00:30:48.150 --> 00:30:50.640

Juliette: Oh that's so tough because I always.

00:30:51.690 --> 00:30:57.210

Juliette: You know, we work so hard right, we always want to do more and be able to.

00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:05.820

Juliette: have more clients and mostly I find it very exciting, you know I don't know if you still feel the same way, but when I get a call from a prospective client.

00:31:06.180 --> 00:31:14.340

Juliette: That explains what it is they want you know I kind of often running like Oh, this is great it's like the beginning of a mystery book for me or the beginning of the puzzle.

00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:21.330

Juliette: And I can't wait to get started, and I know, sometimes I say you know pretty tired of traveling I don't think I want to do it anymore.

00:31:21.690 --> 00:31:35.250

Juliette: But if I get that call that says hey I have you know X y & z going on in this country I'd be on the next plane now I'd be excited about it, so the definition of success really always changes I think it's.

00:31:36.510 --> 00:31:43.650

Juliette: kind of been fleeting at times, and also the definition change, depending on what I wanted at the time, so.

00:31:43.980 --> 00:31:51.090

Juliette: When I was in the hotel business, for example, my first general manager position that was you know the ultimate success for me.

00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:59.610

Juliette: At all this is it, this is what I always wanted to do now I'm the GM and then you know, of course, it was well now, I want to be multi-unit GM and that came up.

00:31:59.970 --> 00:32:09.120

Juliette: And then you know the accounting book hit me, and it was I don't know enough about finance I don't know enough about accounting, why can I describe what's depreciation, you know that's a.

00:32:10.560 --> 00:32:20.340

Juliette: Big failure on my part, so Back to School you know we say Well now, this is a whole other world it's opened up, so my first success, then was being able to go work for a bigger firm.

00:32:21.030 --> 00:32:25.170

Juliette: and stay with them for a few years and learn so much from some really talented people.

00:32:25.620 --> 00:32:35.730

Juliette: And after that it was marrying everything together, you know now, I have the background in hospitality I have you know, several years of experience working across a lot of different industries doing.

00:32:36.120 --> 00:32:45.000

Juliette: investigations and so now I'm going to go work for hotel company as a director of investigations and do that, so it was a great marriage there so that was another success and then.

00:32:45.360 --> 00:33:00.780

Juliette: Putting all of that together into what I think is a foundation of being able to conduct investigations, which is to get tips right, these are what kicks off a majority of the investigation so having that whistleblower software and my clients, be able to use it.

00:33:02.010 --> 00:33:09.960

Juliette: The success to me feels like you know, rather than I'm doing this for one company I do it for a lot of different ones, and I love that.

00:33:10.740 --> 00:33:26.550

Kelly Paxton: yeah absolutely oh my gosh so crazy last new question that I asked is during coven have you been touched anything that is, you know that you're loving and it doesn't have to be related to fraud, but if there is a fraud and go, we would love that.

00:33:27.660 --> 00:33:38.700

Juliette: You know I didn't binge TV I don't watch a lot of TV, but I am certainly still bingeing on, as I mentioned before mysteries I just love, a good mystery book, and so I found.

00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:48.720

Juliette: You know, some new authors that I hadn't read before and just ate the entire series, you know I'd have to read, one after another, to read them, so it was probably the biggest binge I did was.

00:33:49.710 --> 00:34:05.820

Juliette: Was mystery books and the other was food, you know I found with two stepsons and with everybody home we've been cooking a lot and so those are the three have to say three things so reading eating and then working out because.

00:34:06.090 --> 00:34:09.000

Juliette: I had to tie that, all together, otherwise it would really be that.

00:34:10.860 --> 00:34:12.690

Kelly Paxton: 1990 pounds.

00:34:13.260 --> 00:34:17.880

Juliette: Exactly so lots of dancing after the homemade cookies or whatnot.

00:34:18.240 --> 00:34:18.990

Kelly Paxton: Oh, my gosh.

00:34:20.010 --> 00:34:29.880

Kelly Paxton: Juliette I am just honored that you came on the podcast and look forward to when we can like meet in it, you know another event in person and um.

00:34:30.330 --> 00:34:39.330

Kelly Paxton: Any last thing you want to leave with the guests like your website your Twitter handle and, of course, reach out to Juliet on LinkedIn which I will have in the show notes.

00:34:39.870 --> 00:34:46.020

Juliette: Absolutely Thank you so much for having me, as I mentioned the women you've had on here and been great and I'm so proud to join them.

00:34:46.740 --> 00:34:56.610

Juliette: Our website is ethics week COM I'm on LinkedIn is Juliette Gust and our handle on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram is also at ethic sweet and.

00:34:57.540 --> 00:35:04.140

Juliette: I guess I would love to leave it as there's so many people that I see online and I had the pleasure of meeting you in person, but.

00:35:04.380 --> 00:35:15.720

Juliette: we've gotten such great support from others as well that I can't wait to meet in person, and so, once this pandemic is behind us, I hope I can get out there again and be able to say hi and thank you in person to all of those.

00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:18.960

Kelly Paxton: Oh that's wonderful Thank you so much, Juliette.

00:35:19.560 --> 00:35:20.250

Juliette: Thanks, Kelly.

Another great guest and episode.  Do you have more questions about Ethics Suite or alert lines?  Be sure to reach out to Juliette.  Connect with her on LinkedIn and Twitter.  She puts out great content consistently.  Remember #tipsfindfraud.  See you next week!