Great Women In Fraud

Episode 41 Lloydette Bai-Marrow The Investigator’s Mindset

July 20, 2021 Kelly Paxton, CFE Episode 41
Show Notes Transcript

Transcript highlights 

00:01:58.650 --> 00:02:10.230

Kelly Paxton: And the biggest one recently is the Investigators Mindset like, can you tell us how you started that? You have this strategy: I'm going to do this Investigator’s Mindset or did it just come organically.

00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:27.690

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: It really did come organically, I was thinking about different approaches to my content, and because some of the stuff that I've done on Linkedin or certified your LinkedIn is pretty heavy and you know you're talking about technical aspects of the law you're talking about new law.  Like deferred prosecution agreements and the technicalities and reach agreement.

And those can be quite heavy heavy lifting for those who are reading that we live in this generation, where I think people like to consume information in smaller bite-sized pieces.

00:16:21.690 --> 00:16:36.570

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: And you really get to understand their approach, but also, I think I'm a good lawyer, but I also I think fit the bill of a good investigator I think I've struggled with those two worlds very well.

00:16:38.070 --> 00:16:44.730

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: And so yeah I kind of get it I just get it,  I know of what they're thinking.

00:16:48.990 --> 00:16:56.250

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: How to navigate the investigation space and what the challenges are that we as investigators often face.

00:16:57.900 --> 00:17:03.360

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: As well as the pitfalls that sometimes we can fall into by virtue of our own actions.

00:17:47.850 --> 00:17:49.290

Kelly Paxton: Psychological safety.

00:17:53.850 --> 00:18:03.510

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: Wow yeah that post, you know, I was on my way to a meeting this morning and I was thinking about just reflecting on everything that's been going on down here.

And it really did resonate with me about how do we create environments where those that we lead and those that we manage can make mistakes safely and that seems almost as if it's an oxymoron but it's not.

Because we as leaders and those who are responsible for teams really have to start to think again about how we create our environments to be safe.

00:18:37.620 --> 00:18:44.010

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: Because even in the ethics and compliance world, and I think chief compliance officers, you know head of compliance head of ethics, the whole lot.

00:32:19.980 --> 00:32:23.610

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: And I'm not saying that people aren't whistleblowers are not supposed to be saints.

00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:30.450

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: I was speaking, some of the other day, and I said that we talked about this, and they said listen look at the information that the whistleblower is providing you with.

00:32:31.080 --> 00:32:37.290

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: rather than looking at the whistleblower themselves, their character their personality their background absolutely look at that later stage.

00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:42.870

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: But first of all look at the integrity of what they have provided you with in terms of the information.

00:32:43.530 --> 00:32:51.360

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: Let that be your first focus and I think it really challenged me because, as investigators as well is often the first thing that we do.

00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:54.690

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: is to look at the whistleblowers background let's see who this person is.

00:32:55.200 --> 00:33:04.380

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: let's see what their motivations are let's see what their criminal record is like let's see they've been having an affair in the office and let's find the things that the skeletons in their closets.

00:33:13.710 --> 00:33:29.190

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: Look at what they're telling you and look at see if it holds water see if it's valid and if it's valid taking a moment with it absolutely investigate them check them out later, but don't do that, first, because often when you do that, first, you discount everything else.

00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:46.110

Kelly Paxton: Okay, but I kind of think throwing the whistleblower under the bus is just the easiest thing to do.

00:34:46.140 --> 00:34:46.740

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: It is. It is and it's all natural default.

00:34:50.010 --> 00:34:55.140

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: Is our natural default and that's something that we have to switch and that's why I think these discussions, and these.

00:34:55.620 --> 00:35:06.870

Lloydette Bai-Marrow: This focus that I think has moved to enter whistleblowing moser and I think you've seen the same thing you know the discussion and the debates and the discourse around the importance of whistleblowers has really shifted I think in the last.